Logs on 2021-10-07 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 01:01:07 | <jakefromstatefar> | abhixec: any luck? |
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| 01:20:26 | <jakefromstatefar> | <liskin> "jakefromstatefarm: my current..." <- Any idea when you'll get around to this? Sometime soon? Should I wait, or just try the current version? |
| 01:21:42 | <geekosaur> | he said hopefully this week, as I read it |
| 01:22:06 | <geekosaur> | that said, I think you can try the current version, it just has some rough edges |
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| 02:36:08 | <abhixec> | <file descriptor: 4>: commitBuffer: resource vanished (Broken pipe) |
| 02:36:38 | <abhixec> | this is the error that I get when I first start xmonad+xmobar and xmobar disappears after few seconds |
| 02:36:42 | <abhixec> | <file descriptor: 4>: commitBuffer: resource vanished (Broken pipe) |
| 02:53:55 | <minty> | sounds like you need to call a plumber |
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| 02:58:51 | <minty> | you using spawnPipe, hPutStr/hPutStrLn, and %stdinreader% ? |
| 02:59:36 | <minty> | \quit |
| 02:59:41 | <minty> | lol |
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| 18:18:37 | <minty> | any of y'all doing alt-tab reliably? I have Actions.GroupNavigation imported with nextMatch Forward (return True) bound to alt+tab, but i'm guessing i need to toggle between nextMatch Forward and nextMatch Backward somehow... |
| 18:26:36 | <mc47[m]> | Maybe alt+tab and super+tab? |
| 18:26:54 | <mc47[m]> | I don't have many windows open per workspace so it was never a problem |
| 18:31:42 | <geekosaur> | I use alt-tab and alt-shift-tab |
| 18:31:59 | <geekosaur> | I think that's also what the default bindings use |
| 18:32:14 | <geekosaur> | well, mod in place of alt |
| 18:32:50 | <geekosaur> | I also have mod-arrows bound for prev/next hidden workspace |
| 18:35:34 | <minty> | dang, i just think it's more intuitive/faster to have them bound to the same key combo |
| 18:37:18 | <minty> | would just have to memoize if you just went backwards or forwards, and backwards first if nothing's memoized yet, i just have no idea how to do that with Haskell |
| 18:38:46 | <minty> | btw, looks like the default keybindings are for prev/next window *in the current workspace*, not the global windowstack |
| 18:39:26 | <geekosaur> | yeh, you'd be changing that |
| 18:39:36 | liskin | uses https://github.com/sagb/alttab |
| 18:39:41 | <geekosaur> | just mentioning how the default picks its keys |
| 18:40:22 | <liskin> | And by "uses" I mean it's there in case I need it, which happens a couple times a year :-) |
| 18:40:31 | Solid | just uses M-n and M-e (M-j and M-k by default, afair) |
| 18:40:32 | <minty> | alttab looks perfect! |
| 18:47:28 | <minty> | ehh, it only works with the current workspace as well |
| 18:49:58 | <Solid> | depending on your aesthetic preferences you might try a prompt-based implementation? (X.P.Window) |
| 18:51:06 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.16/docs/XMonad-Actions-GridSelect.html |
| 18:51:40 | <geekosaur> | which iirc is all windows for the default window one, but you could build your own with all windows if you wanted to because the low level machinery's fully exposed |
| 18:52:29 | <geekosaur> | (probably want the git version though, I think there's a color bug in 0.16) |
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| 20:06:52 | <mekeor[m]> | hey. i'm using emacs with --with-x-toolkit=no and xmonad (on guix system). all windows have a window border except emacs(client). any idea whats wrong? |
| 20:14:13 | <geekosaur> | applications can override the border setting; perhaps emacsclient does |
| 20:14:43 | <geekosaur> | (they're not supposed to, but there are lots of broken apps out there and emacs is somewhat infamous for ignoring rules other than its own) |
| 20:15:21 | <jakefromstatefar> | geekosaur: For the 0.17 release, should we make & announce deprecation/renaming of `rotSlaves`? Just due to possible misunderstanding of its functionality? |
| 20:16:22 | <jakefromstatefar> | rotSecondary would be a good name. |
| 20:16:24 | <geekosaur> | mekeor[m], it looks like emacsclient doesn't support -bw so you'd have to figure out the appropriate elisp to make it create a border |
| 20:17:00 | <geekosaur> | jakefromstatefar, I'm agnostic on that question, aside from that having been the original term for not-master windows |
| 20:17:13 | <geekosaur> | you might want to open an issue for it so it can be discussed |
| 20:17:19 | <jakefromstatefar> | OK. |
| 20:18:56 | <mekeor[m]> | geekosaur, you mean the emacsclient --with-x-toolkit=no does not support "-bw" (what ever that means?). i mean, i used emacsclient in xmonad before. it was just fine. |
| 20:19:14 | <geekosaur> | -bw is the standard X toolkit option for border_width |
| 20:19:41 | <mekeor[m]> | ... but i haven't been using it with no x toolkit |
| 20:19:57 | <mekeor[m]> | ah i see |
| 20:20:34 | <mekeor[m]> | i guess i'll have to use a x toolkit for bw -.-" |
| 20:20:53 | <geekosaur> | so I checked emacsclient --help on this system to see if it had any options for changing the border |
| 20:21:25 | <mekeor[m]> | ah interesting |
| 20:21:46 | <mekeor[m]> | so windows/programs set their own bw? |
| 20:21:47 | <geekosaur> | but I've had lots of problems with various emacs versions applying their own ideas of how things should work instead of obeying ICCCM / EWMH |
| 20:21:56 | <mekeor[m]> | i was thinking xmonad draws borders |
| 20:22:01 | <geekosaur> | they're not supposed to, per ICCCM |
| 20:22:37 | <geekosaur> | but the option exists, so you can turn off a border or make it thicker for some windows because you need them to stand out better from other windows or something |
| 20:22:56 | <geekosaur> | but it's really given to the window manager, and xmonad expects to set it itself |
| 20:23:32 | <geekosaur> | this said, most modern wms don't set the border so this is the kind of bug nobody would notice unless using e.g. dwm or xmonad |
| 20:24:41 | <mekeor[m]> | what a chaos :D |
| 20:24:48 | <mekeor[m]> | thank yoh, geekosaur :) |
| 20:25:11 | <mekeor[m]> | i'm gonna try emacs --with-x-toolkitn=lucid :) |
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| 20:31:21 | <mekeor[m]> | actually my emacs (not emacsclient) supports -bw but has the same problem with borders |
| 20:34:32 | <geekosaur> | interesting. any chance you have something like smartBorders enabled? |
| 20:34:54 | <mekeor[m]> | also, i missed to mention that the border is only not drawn when the window is focused |
| 20:35:14 | <geekosaur> | o.O |
| 20:35:21 | <mekeor[m]> | yes, i do, geekosaur |
| 20:35:32 | <geekosaur> | I wonder if it overrides the border color then |
| 20:35:40 | <geekosaur> | and is drawn but in gray or something |
| 20:35:54 | <mekeor[m]> | it might draw it black. thats right |
| 20:36:07 | <geekosaur> | fwiw I have emacs with gtk and it draws the borders fine |
| 20:36:22 | <geekosaur> | not even translucent like the damned terminal windows do |
| 20:38:00 | <mekeor[m]> | it actually looks like black borders btw |
| 20:39:10 | Las[m]_ | is now known as Las[m]__ |
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| 20:39:44 | <mekeor[m]> | why would smartborders recolor borders? mmmh |
| 20:42:36 | <geekosaur> | smartBorders itself shouldn't and doesn't, it just changes the border width as part of laying out the window. but there are some bugfixes to it in git xmonad-contrib |
| 20:42:56 | <geekosaur> | because it had been handling some corner cases wrong |
| 20:43:21 | <geekosaur> | I would not be at all surprised if emacs's color stuff does, though |
| 20:43:57 | <geekosaur> | its color handling is complex and confusing and if you've ever tweaked any of it you may have changed the wrong thing |
| 20:45:33 | <geekosaur> | especially since it uses its own names for things (like "gutters" instead of "borders") |
| 20:45:47 | <mekeor[m]> | when i run emacs -Q (i.e. without any modifications) it still does not have any border (or rather only a black border) |
| 20:46:09 | <mekeor[m]> | actually the correct color sometimes shows up for a moment |
| 20:46:16 | <geekosaur> | :( |
| 20:46:23 | <geekosaur> | wat |
| 20:46:42 | <geekosaur> | that almost certainly makes it emacs unless you have a really weird xmonad logHook |
| 20:47:22 | <mekeor[m]> | no, i only have dynamiclogwithpp |
| 20:47:28 | <mekeor[m]> | nothing fancy |
| 20:47:40 | <mekeor[m]> | i'll try emacs with gtk now |
| 20:47:51 | <jakefromstatefar> | What's the difference between `layoutBuilder` and `subLayouts` that allows `layoutBuilder` to properly clear tab decorations? |
| 20:48:57 | <jakefromstatefar> | Using layoutBuilder removes the problems that #343 and #136 describe. |
| 20:49:41 | <jakefromstatefar> | I'm curios, what if I nest a fullscreen layoutBuilder + tabs as a sublayout... Maybe that would fix the issue? |
| 20:49:41 | <jakefromstatefar> | A bit hacky, but, then we'd know where to look for the error |
| 20:50:05 | <jakefromstatefar> | curious* |
| 20:51:59 | <geekosaur> | actually subTabbed is the hacky one and I'm not too surprised it sometimes breaks |
| 20:54:05 | <geekosaur> | anyway I couldn't tell you off the top of my head the difference between the two; there's like 5 or 6 different ways to do sublayouting in -contrib :) |
| 20:55:16 | <mekeor[m]> | btw, emacs with gtk works just fine for me too |
| 20:58:33 | <geekosaur> | huh |
| 21:23:08 | <liskin> | jakefromstatefar: the primary difference will probably be that layoutBuilder is static whereas SubLayouts lets you move the window between the groups freely |
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| 21:25:40 | <liskin> | also SubLayouts uses an actual layout to determine the subrectangles, whereas layoutBuilder needs static rectangles |
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| 21:26:14 | <liskin> | I'm not entirely sure if any of this actually means the implementation of SubLayouts needs to be so hacky |
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| 21:28:52 | <liskin> | (personally I think it'd be a good idea if someone tried to adopt the tree-based data structure of i3 to xmonad; it'd certainly mean that almost everything would need to get rewritten, but since that's likely true for Wayland anyway, it'd be helpful to do that upfront) |
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| 21:29:44 | <liskin> | (and by the tree-based data structure I primarily mean that layout nesting would become core functionality rather than a -contrib hack) |
| 21:31:24 | <liskin> | But I'm somewhat pessimistic about anyone actually having time to do that. I'd be happy to mentor such an effort, but I'm several months lagged on my own todo-list. :-/ |
| 21:31:35 | <liskin> | (Possibly years. Who knows/cares at this point.) |
| 21:32:24 | geekosaur | resembles that |
| 21:32:50 | <geekosaur> | somewhere or other I have a todo list from 5ish years ago that I should dig out and update |
| 21:33:06 | <geekosaur> | because it has things like initial planning for layer support in it |
| 21:33:28 | <geekosaur> | (then again if someone does the tree thing I'd have to redesign from scratch anyway) |
| 21:37:07 | <geekosaur> | although… I am not sure it's fair to call our layout nesting a hack, unless you straight up call our layouts a hack |
| 21:37:21 | <geekosaur> | I mena, the layout is just a function encoded as constructors |
| 21:37:49 | <geekosaur> | sublayouts are as fair game as anything else you could do that way |
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| 21:42:14 | <liskin> | I would call our layouts a hack at this point, without remorse |
| 21:42:46 | <liskin> | especially the message handling which has absolutely no idea what windows the layout actually sees |
| 21:43:44 | <liskin> | so if you want layout nesting as a layout, you need to store info about the windows/groups somewhere, for any action you need to send messages, and the message handler doesn't have all the info it needs |
| 21:43:48 | <liskin> | it's a mess |
| 21:44:28 | <liskin> | what I'd propose is a tree structure with a layout and possibly some extra extensible data at each node |
| 21:45:11 | <liskin> | I spent some time thinking about this a couple weeks/months ago, but didn't write anything of it down :-( |
| 21:45:49 | <liskin> | I'm fairly sure I can recall all of that should we ever seriously brainstorm this, though |
| 21:46:08 | <geekosaur> | might be a good time for a wip issue then |
| 21:47:47 | <liskin> | possibly, but in all honesty, writing all that down in legible form is a couple hours, which I'd rather spend on release critical stuff right now :-/ |
| 21:48:20 | <liskin> | anyway, thanks for listening to my brain dump, I'll head to bed now :-) |
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| 23:00:43 | <jakefromstatefar> | As a HS student, I can contribute a fair amount of time to a rewrite like that. I would need to become substantially more acquainted with XMonads internal workings. But, it could be a fun months-long project. |
| 23:02:27 | <jakefromstatefar> | My TODO list is about a month out, especially since I offered to generate screenshots this weekend. But, if someone could point me to what segments of code I should start with, I'd be happy to start fiddling with it. |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-10-07.