Home liberachat/#xmonad: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-12-22 (liberachat/#xmonad)

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02:15:11 <dirtcastle> Is haskell fast and consumes less memory like c? Is xmonad fast? I searched up the internet already. Would like to hear your opinion too. I wouldn't mind learning haskell. I want efficiency
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02:50:44 <burp> xmonad is fast, but I wouldn't say Haskell is good for numerical applications
02:50:57 <burp> use it for high level tasks
02:51:53 <burp> if your goal is raw efficiency, maybe Haskell is not what you are looking for
02:55:41 <VarikValefor[m]> burp: Haskell has some fast numeric libraries.
02:56:58 <burp> VarikValefor[m]: native?
02:57:14 <burp> or do they link C/Fortran or embed that?
02:58:04 <burp> so yea, a combination is always possible, do low level numerical stuff with C/Fortran, and interface it for higher level stuff in Haskell, if you so desire
02:58:16 <burp> like Python people do it I guess
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03:08:23 <dirtcastle> burp, so on high level it's almost similar in performance to c?
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12:10:00 <mestre> Hello, I'm trying to find out how to go back to the login screen from xmonad. Any clues?
12:10:34 <geekosaur> mod-shift-q is the default
12:11:19 <mestre> ill try, thank you :)
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15:01:51 <dirtcastle> I'm trying to choose a twm. Rn I've narrowed it down to xmonad and dwm. I've heared xmonad is highly extensible. How true is that?
15:03:34 <geekosaur> we've got 200 extension modules and still growing
15:04:02 <geekosaur> dwm should actually be just as extensible, since xmonad is more or less dwm in Haskell instead of C
15:05:22 <dirtcastle> But community patches in dwm is less in number? Are Extension same as patches?
15:08:22 <dirtcastle> Am I asking the wrong questions
15:08:23 <geekosaur> essentially the same. C more or less requires that extensions be done as patches; Haskell is more flexible, so we can do things as extension modules that plug in
15:09:01 <geekosaur> that's a large part of why xmonad was developed in the first place, because Haskell made it possible to express things more easily and more flexibly than C did
15:09:32 <geekosaur> sadly the original developers are gone at this point
15:10:59 <geekosaur> I'm the longest serving developer at this point and I came on board when xmonad was at version 0.2 so I can't say much about the earlier history than what dons and sjanssen told me back then
15:11:19 <dirtcastle> Oh that's sad.
15:12:23 <geekosaur> haskell programmers have this annoying tendency to be hired by financial institutions that then put restrictive NDAs on them so they can't contribute to open source any more
15:12:58 <geekosaur> (I've been on the edge of that and intend to get no closer)
15:15:16 <dirtcastle> Wow first time talking to a developer. thanks for your work (yours & ur fellow developers) ! After ricing my pc, I'm thinking of contributing as much as I can.
15:18:22 <dirtcastle> Oh. That's kinda messed up. Haskell being hard to learn and restricting the ones who are able to get a job as haskell programmer from contributing to open source....
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15:19:42 <geekosaur> not everyone who gets a haskell job is restricted, and in fact many of the big ecosystem developers have haskell-related jobs. it's just the ones who work for banks and the like, and that isn't so much related to haskell as it is to banks
15:19:47 <dirtcastle> That's gotta impact the health of the project.
15:20:32 <geekosaur> not really. they designed the core, but the core is pretty stable and hasn't changed or needed to change much since
15:21:10 <geekosaur> contrib changes a lot more, and while we contribute to it, more often we're helping others contribute to it
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15:23:42 <dirtcastle> That sounds like a really smart thing to do. I've never heard other projects doing something like this but my knowledge is tiny on these subjects.
15:24:08 <geekosaur> (liskin will probably beg to differ at this point since he likes to bite off more than he can chew :)
15:30:01 <geekosaur> I think most projects I'm aware of have mentors to help new contributors, whether they're Haskell-related or not. You generally need to make contributing as easy as possible for a project to stay alive
15:30:38 <dirtcastle> :D we ,contributers, hope will make all your time & effort worthwhile.
15:31:51 <dirtcastle> That's true!
15:33:16 <geekosaur> I know if you go talk to sm over in #hledger he'll tell you much the same thing. The bar's already pretty high just because we're both Haskell-based projects, making it even higher does not help at all
15:39:33 <dirtcastle> I agree!
15:42:09 <dirtcastle> So adding extensions to xmonad is as simple as "import extension" ?
15:42:51 <geekosaur> generally you need to add something to a hook, or add a combinator somewhere. but you don't need to patch xmonad source or anything silly like that
15:43:59 <geekosaur> in Haskell, importing something just brings new names into scope, you still have to make use of those names
15:44:30 <geekosaur> but we generally try to make using those names easy
15:44:48 <dirtcastle> That's going to avoid a lot of pain. One or two patches is managable removing one patch when there are 5-6 patches, things can go wrong anytime.
15:44:56 <geekosaur> we're still redesigning some of the older parts of contrib to make them easier to use
15:46:29 <dirtcastle> That's amazing!
15:50:39 <dirtcastle> U have convinced me to use xmonad. :) Ever since I learnt abt linux , FLOSS, I am in love with it. love you guys and ur work.
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16:12:42 geekosaur remembers to add another docs bug
16:15:39 <dirtcastle> Lolol
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17:12:14 liskin used to like to literally bite off more than he can chew :-D
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19:01:52 geekosaur now has his laptop config on github finally
19:02:37 <geekosaur> https://github.com/geekosaur/xmonad.hs/tree/skkukuk
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20:18:26 <geekosaur> mrf. made a branch to work on the docks keybinding function stuff and never did anything else with it. now I have to remember the hack I came up with to make `def` work…
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20:29:39 <geekosaur> hm, that is annoying. updated my xmonad-contrib fork and got the CI config with it, wasn't quite expecting that
20:29:55 <geekosaur> twice since I have the additional branch
20:44:28 <Solid> isn't biting off more than one can chew the meaning of life? would be pretty boring otherwise :P
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22:10:19 <geekosaur> meh. was going to try to foist the other doc bug off on someone who knows haddock markup better than I do, but I've already had to pull up haddock markup for the other one…
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23:03:10 <Guest13> Has the logo contest finished?
23:03:38 <geekosaur> end of the year is when we rescheduled the end of the first phase. voting in January
23:04:51 <geekosaur> https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/discussions/343
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23:45:18 <geekosaur> hm. apparently either I already upstreamed the def key hack, or I at least made local changes
23:49:38 <liskin> Solid: I thought the meaning of life was still an open question :-)
23:49:55 <liskin> (even the meaning of _my_ life is an open question)
23:51:45 <geekosaur> well, that's embarrassing; apparently I did this in May and completely forgot :)
23:54:15 <geekosaur> guess that means I'm done for the night…
23:56:46 <geekosaur> also I kinda wish testing doc changes didn't mean merging the PR and waiting for the doc site to update
23:57:03 <geekosaur> or installing haddock and trying to build the docs locally
23:57:31 <geekosaur> not that the changes are that major, but…
23:59:33 <geekosaur> someone who knows haddock better than I do might want to glance over the most recent two PRs

All times are in UTC on 2021-12-22.