Logs on 2021-12-30 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 03:24:10 | <etxeberrialex[m]> | Hey has someone managed to set up polybar + xmonad with multiple screens? I you can share dotfiles would be thankful! |
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| 04:26:43 | <noex> | how can I sink this window? , isClass "qutebrowser" --> (doShiftAndGo "4:web" <+> W.sink) |
| 04:26:52 | <noex> | obviously that's wrong |
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| 04:27:16 | <noex> | but it's floating for some strange reason. I want it to sink |
| 04:30:25 | <noex> | i guess there's SinkAll |
| 04:30:36 | <noex> | i don't know what the idiomatic way to do it is |
| 04:34:35 | <noex> | hold on, i'm going to figure this out |
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| 04:50:03 | <noex> | fuck |
| 04:50:28 | <noex> | doShiftAndGo ws = doF (W.greedyView ws) <+> doShift ws |
| 04:50:43 | <noex> | i feel like it is so easy and I'm just not seeing it |
| 04:55:01 | <noex> | i rubber ducked it |
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| 06:59:02 | <AIM[m]> | I'm here I'm here 🥳🥳🥳 |
| 06:59:17 | <AIM[m]> | I learnt Haskell just to use Xmonad |
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| 12:06:34 | <geekosaur> | noex, if the window declares its minimum and maximum sizes the same as its initial size it gets floated, and this overrides the manageHook. first time I've ever heard of qutebrowser doing that, though |
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| 14:13:05 | <noex> | geekosaur: what was happening was a manage hook further down for isFullscreen was getting triggered and floating it. apparently it believes that it is fullscreen. |
| 14:13:36 | <noex> | i have it tiled now and xprop still says it's fullscreen lol |
| 14:14:07 | <noex> | _NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN |
| 14:15:23 | <geekosaur> | that's one confused program |
| 14:15:40 | <geekosaur> | have you tried looking up its fullscreen key and pressing it? |
| 14:16:01 | <noex> | oh, that worked |
| 14:16:33 | <noex> | i just pressed F11 |
| 14:17:28 | <noex> | okay that state persists somehow. now it opens correctly. that's weird. |
| 14:18:41 | <geekosaur> | just means it remembers its state across runs, not particularly weird |
| 14:18:53 | <geekosaur> | browsers in particular do that |
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| 14:19:58 | <noex> | if it hadn't been obscuring xmobar i otherwise would have never noticed or cared I suppose |
| 14:31:25 | <noex> | there are some issues open for xmonad on github that are totally not xmonad issues. the ibus input method one is interesting though, because i was messing with that the other day. I was able to type japanese text using xmonad, but it was not "session-wide" |
| 14:36:57 | <geekosaur> | ibus matters for XMonad.Prompt, which given the remark about searching may well be involved |
| 14:43:30 | <geekosaur> | we really didn't get enough information on that ticket, and I'[m not sure how much I trust what we did get because it was clearly ESL and I don't know quite what was intended by e.g. "can not absolutly type" |
| 14:46:42 | <geekosaur> | they might also be asking about configuring ibus from xmonad, which is just a matter of dropping an environment variable setting into main before starting xmonad's main loop |
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| 18:50:06 | <noex> | geekosaur: a lot of these tickets kind of look like environment issues to me. the RHEL/Fedora thing you mentioned I had to use at work. there's a directory of those xclient files, I forget where. I just had to drop xmonad in there. then the login manager lets you click a gear to select which session you want to launch. |
| 18:51:06 | <geekosaur> | right, although you usually have to restart the session manager. but there's some question as to how to do that, since there's at least two ways to set it up and each one has its own benefits and drawbacks (read the ticket) |
| 18:51:20 | <geekosaur> | it'd still be worth packaging one as an example |
| 18:52:03 | <geekosaur> | as it is, I have one on the MATE config wiki page for the xmonad+MATE setup |
| 18:52:14 | <noex> | it looks like the ticket is talking about building from stack and not installing a distro package |
| 18:53:02 | <noex> | and then wanting an automatically created symlink..? |
| 18:53:05 | <geekosaur> | the examples directory is still included in the hackage package. admittedly with stack you'd have to unpack it to get the examples |
| 18:53:12 | <noex> | ah |
| 18:53:24 | <geekosaur> | that symlink one is still open but unlikely |
| 18:53:46 | <geekosaur> | better solution is to teach users how to configure to avoid needing to put something in /usr/bin |
| 18:55:33 | <geekosaur> | again my MATE config page talks about that, although the solution there isn't much better |
| 18:56:41 | <noex> | so my distro put xmonad in /usr/bin, but if he's not installing a package then it's kind of a moot point. he could put it in any place he wants lol. |
| 18:57:23 | <noex> | i feel like what he wanted is usually handled by distro packaging |
| 18:58:35 | <noex> | like symlinks should not be an xmonad issue lol |
| 18:59:27 | <geekosaur> | shouldn't, but. the issue they want to solve here is that on most distros, $PATH is /bin:/usr/bin at that point so xmonad won't be found unless it's in one of those two directories |
| 19:00:04 | <geekosaur> | the reason that issue is still open is so we can figure out a better solution (preferably changing $PATH rather than putting xmonad or a link thereto in a system directory) |
| 19:00:15 | <noex> | that would be true of any program |
| 19:00:43 | <noex> | you mean specifically when installing from something like stack/cabal? |
| 19:00:45 | <geekosaur> | most users set their PATH appropriately for terminals, so it's normally not true |
| 19:00:54 | <geekosaur> | but X startup does not read shell dotfiles |
| 19:01:14 | <noex> | exec ~/.local/bin/xmonad |
| 19:01:39 | <noex> | no path needed |
| 19:02:51 | <geekosaur> | you can't do that with a direct session file, only with one that defines an .xsession style session |
| 19:03:20 | <noex> | hmm |
| 19:03:25 | <noex> | i see |
| 19:04:35 | <noex> | my Xclients for RHEL is exec ~/.xmonad/xmonad-x86_64-linux |
| 19:04:56 | <noex> | i guess I haven't used the .xsession style. too many different ways to start X lol |
| 19:05:42 | <geekosaur> | Xclients is an RHEL/Fedora-specific alternative to .xsession |
| 19:06:42 | <noex> | oh really. I have only seen it there and it's annoying for sure. |
| 19:06:55 | <noex> | i could probably symlink .Xclients to .xinitrc and it would do the exact same thing |
| 19:07:51 | <noex> | i guess i've never used the .xsession stuff then. am I missing out? what is the advantage/difference? just being able to hot swap DE/WMs? |
| 19:07:52 | <geekosaur> | there are a few differences |
| 19:08:31 | <geekosaur> | Xclients allows for various things specified by the distribution (like, say, on-screen keyboards or accessibility tools) to be run |
| 19:09:26 | <noex> | my understanding was it would just execute any arbitrary command you put in there. it just runs it like a shell script. |
| 19:09:36 | <geekosaur> | most non-RH/Fedora distros do this with /etc/X11/xinitrc.d and then run .xsession last; RH/Fedora bypasses the system stuff with .xinitrc or .xsession and the system default Xsession reads .Xclients |
| 19:10:08 | <noex> | ohhh |
| 19:10:18 | <noex> | that makes sense |
| 19:10:31 | <noex> | yeah it does start ibus and a bunch of other stuff by itself |
| 19:11:03 | <noex> | well I stand corrected. did not know that |
| 19:12:11 | <noex> | i really just don't enjoy using RHEL/Fedora tbh. the differences seem unnecessary and the packages I want are always either unavailable or old |
| 19:12:27 | <noex> | it's essentially completely unusable without EPEL |
| 19:12:51 | <geekosaur> | that was always my problem with it. but I had to support RHEL at a past job so I got to know how they do (and don't do) things then |
| 19:13:07 | <geekosaur> | and companies like RHEL for corporate level support |
| 19:13:13 | <noex> | same lol. if my work didn't use it I'd never touch it |
| 19:13:18 | <noex> | oh they love it |
| 19:17:11 | <noex> | they gave me a RHEL7 vm at first and so I set up epel and went to install xmonad, and it was like just an insanely old version of xmonad. |
| 19:17:23 | <noex> | i think it was 0.11 or something |
| 19:17:42 | <noex> | which obviously is totally incompatible with my current config |
| 19:18:21 | <noex> | i went down a rabbit hole and I believe the version of GHC available is what limits it |
| 19:18:37 | <noex> | why, I do not know. i did not try to upgrade ghc myself |
| 19:19:01 | <noex> | https://centos.pkgs.org/7/epel-x86_64/xmonad-0.11-12.el7.x86_64.rpm.html |
| 19:19:06 | <geekosaur> | often it's just laziness. noody wants to maintain it, so it doesn't happen |
| 19:19:43 | <geekosaur> | we're running into that with a number of distributions these days (debian's dropping much of its ghc support for lack of maintainers, for example) |
| 19:20:18 | <noex> | now that you mention it, I installed 0.17 on gentoo myself. i knew it was released but it had been quite a while and the package was still not updated :( |
| 19:20:28 | <noex> | i honestly still don't know if it's updated |
| 19:20:45 | <geekosaur> | many traditional distros are seeing "brain drains" because of nix |
| 19:21:04 | <geekosaur> | that's where the debian maintainers went, for example |
| 19:22:45 | <noex> | i haven't really looked into it. it builds packages in containers or something? |
| 19:23:33 | <noex> | i feel like an old man over here using X11. ya newfangled kids with your waylands! |
| 19:23:59 | <geekosaur> | it builds packages with fixed dependency chains and versions, and provides repeatable builds |
| 19:24:21 | <geekosaur> | and updates faster than any distribution, while still letting you pin things to known working versions when you need to |
| 19:24:34 | <geekosaur> | but it's a major PITA to maintain |
| 19:25:07 | <noex> | arch always updated stuff super fast usually, but there was even ghc fuckery there if i recall |
| 19:26:17 | <noex> | https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/tree/master/x11-wm/xmonad wow |
| 19:26:36 | <noex> | i should really update this myself and open a PR. that's insane. |
| 19:26:48 | <geekosaur> | yeh, they went with dynamic linking to make their packaging easier at the price of ghc-using developers being screwed |
| 19:27:45 | <geekosaur> | (and now they're more or less desupporting ghc-based stuff because everyone responded by switching to ghcup and building stuff themselves) |
| 19:27:58 | <noex> | that is exactly what i ended up doing lol |
| 19:29:21 | <geekosaur> | I'm on ubuntu but I build everything myself with ghc and cabal… but I'm an xmonad developer so it's not that surprising. Also I run git HEAD for the same reason |
| 19:30:05 | <geekosaur> | It's when users have to do that that you know something's gone sideways somewhere |
| 19:32:59 | <noex> | rust is as bad or worse. there's almost no point even checking the package manager. I just have cargo exclusively to manage rust packages |
| 19:33:20 | <noex> | with ghc stuff, you usually get something, it's just old |
| 19:35:44 | <noex> | https://github.com/gentoo-haskell/gentoo-haskell/tree/master/x11-wm/xmonad this makes no sense |
| 19:36:19 | <noex> | it's been updated here for months. i'm going to try and get this merged in. |
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| 20:25:37 | <noex> | https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pull/23591 well if they don't accept my PR maybe it will nudge someone else who will update it :) |
| 20:25:44 | <noex> | "works on my machine" |
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| 20:50:59 | <noex> | i need to retrigger their CI scanner somehow |
| 20:51:53 | <noex> | wonder if i have to open a whole new PR |
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| 21:07:21 | <liskin> | Force push should be enough |
| 21:07:48 | <liskin> | (empty git commit --amend before that) |
| 21:11:24 | <noex> | feck |
| 21:11:30 | <noex> | another old version in the manifest lol |
| 21:11:45 | <noex> | solid CI testing at least |
| 21:13:43 | <noex> | so a big reason people use linux and software like this is to explicitly NOT be tracked...but it does make you wonder things like, how many users use package X on a given distro |
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| 21:18:50 | <geekosaur> | debian has a popularity contest thing, or used to, but it's explicitly opt-in |
| 21:19:34 | <geekosaur> | the problem with such being selection bias |
| 21:20:15 | <liskin> | Good thing about Arch is they just tell you |
| 21:22:00 | <noex> | https://pkgstats.archlinux.de/packages/xmonad |
| 21:22:16 | <noex> | not sure what happened from 2010 to 2016 |
| 21:22:48 | <geekosaur> | might compare to how many releases we had over that period (we're traditionally bad at releases :) |
| 21:23:27 | <geekosaur> | mostly because every time we've had to do one, all lthe institutional knowledge of how has been lost and we had to start over from scratch |
| 21:23:36 | <noex> | hahaha |
| 21:23:40 | <geekosaur> | and try to dig up account passwords and keyys, etc. |
| 21:24:36 | <noex> | oh |
| 21:24:43 | <noex> | yeah this is totally inaccurate |
| 21:24:47 | <noex> | for reasons we talked about earlier |
| 21:25:02 | <noex> | it was around the same time I started using cabal as well on arch |
| 21:25:34 | <noex> | i wonder if that's what this essentially shows |
| 21:26:51 | <noex> | i stopped using the distro-provided packages too |
| 21:27:05 | <geekosaur> | oddly I think the easiest and probably most accurate way to find out how many xmonad users there are is to search for "xmonad.hs" on github |
| 21:27:24 | <geekosaur> | and see how many ditfiles repos pop up |
| 21:27:29 | <geekosaur> | *dotfiles |
| 21:27:33 | <noex> | right |
| 21:27:39 | <noex> | that's a good chunk of them for sure |
| 21:32:12 | <AIM[m]> | Yeah, I installed Xmonad from AUR instead of pacman repo |
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| 22:02:08 | <noex> | crap, they require a sign-off for ALL commits. once this passes CI i think I'll have to squash the commits and add a signature line |
| 22:02:32 | <geekosaur> | not surprising for a distribution |
| 22:03:18 | <noex> | i think this is probably what has happened. nobody wants to go through this effort so everyone just updates locally and hopes the next guy will update the distro package |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-12-30.