Home liberachat/#xmonad: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-02-14 (liberachat/#xmonad)

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18:14:12 <galactic_starfis> <Solid> "mh, indeed" <- We could always just mark the old implementation as deprecated, and migrate people over a few version numbers.
18:14:36 <galactic_starfis> Given the release speed, I think 1 major vnum, or a few minor ones would do the trick.
18:15:02 <galactic_starfis> The only issue would be older posts not getting refreshed.
18:15:08 <galactic_starfis> (that I can see, anyway)
18:15:10 <geekosaur> but we get grumps over deprecating stuff even at the kinda glacial speed we move at
18:15:24 <galactic_starfis> hm
18:16:45 <geekosaur> people setup their configs and leave them for years and then get smacked with deprecations 10 years later and don't like it
18:30:49 <Solid> yes
18:31:14 <Solid> also, we have no idea how people respond to deprecations and removal of things because (seemingly) no one has tried 0.17.0 yet
18:31:37 <Solid> which introduces very visible deprecations (via xmessage)
18:35:38 <liskin> Solid: why do you think no one has tried 0.17.0?
18:36:31 <liskin> it's just linux distros that are behind; bsds updated and many people who build it from git have presumably updated too in recent months
19:13:59 <Solid> liskin: maybe I'm overestimating the number of people who are using xmonad through their system's package manager
19:14:07 <Solid> (or the number of people who use xmonad in general :)
19:14:20 <Solid> but my feeling is that they outnumber the "I install from source" crowd quite a bit
19:16:45 <liskin> maybe I'm just underestimating your interpretation of "no one" :-)
19:17:31 <geekosaur> Solid, I think it's smaller than you think, just because we've tended to go so long between releasesthat lots of people have had to switch to git to get functionality or bugfixes
19:17:56 <geekosaur> in practice we're kinda rolling release
19:18:23 <liskin> I think that some (possibly most) of my friends install via "cabal install --lib xmonad", which does give you 0.17.0 these days
19:18:57 <liskin> but stack(age) still doesn't :-/
19:19:19 <geekosaur> stack'll get there eventually
19:19:42 <Solid> the people I know IRL who use xmonad (which is so cool, btw, and none of them were converted by me :>) are all still on 0.15/0.16
19:19:55 <geekosaur> we'll have to wait out the bigger fish they're frying, like aeson 2 which they'veonly just gotten too (who knows when they'll get to text 2 :)
19:21:36 <liskin> hm, I think I also haven't really converted anyone
19:21:44 <liskin> it's more like they converted me :-)
19:21:51 <geekosaur> I make a lousy evangelist
19:21:56 <liskin> yep, same here
19:22:13 <geekosaur> we get our converts from the likes of distrotube :)
19:23:24 <geekosaur> and /r/unixporn
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19:46:57 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> Hi guys, so I've been using xmonad for about an year and thinking to try some other WM, which one do you guys recommend?
19:47:03 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> I'm thinking qtile or i3-gaps
19:53:10 <burp> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Comparison_of_tiling_window_managers there are some more ;P
19:53:22 <burp> but I haven't used any other than xmonad
19:54:06 <burp> very briefly dwm I think
19:54:13 <Solid> c209e6dc-4d76-47: the advice if to stay with xmonad of course!
19:54:42 <geekosaur> I'm trying to figure out why they came *here* to ask
19:55:42 <burp> well, when you started with the best (xmonad), maybe you have to test a couple of others to apreciate it :)
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20:16:36 liskin would recommend trying sway, waymonad and qtile, and then writing a detailed report about the experience so we can all learn something from it :-P
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20:25:14 mc47 approves what liskin said
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20:26:05 <mc47> Personally, I tried i3 for a semester. Once I've set up xmonad I never looked back
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20:36:35 <unknownbeing[m]> Hi
20:38:04 <geekosaur> hi
20:38:47 <unknownbeing[m]> What's the deal with logging of this room? I don't get it
20:39:25 <geekosaur> ?
20:39:46 <geekosaur> you're on matrix so it's logged there anyway. the IRC side has its own logging
20:39:46 <unknownbeing[m]> I got a message from the bot
20:39:56 <unknownbeing[m]> I see
20:40:01 <unknownbeing[m]> Is it a big deal?
20:40:47 <geekosaur> oh.we got acomplaint about logging being a potentilaproblem with the EU's GDPR directive (data privacy)
20:41:26 <unknownbeing[m]> Is that unique to this room?
20:41:49 <geekosaur> no, #haskell has a similar warning and probably some others do similar things
20:42:09 <unknownbeing[m]> I see
20:42:17 <geekosaur> nobody's quite sure how the GDPR applies to IRC logging, and nobody wants to be the one to test it in court
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20:43:35 <unknownbeing[m]> Could you please help me with something? Is it possible to make a key bind for switching to the last window, even if it was on another workspace (i.e. switch to that workspace instead of switching a window)
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20:47:12 <unknownbeing[m]> E.g: if I have gimp and firefox on workspace 1 and the last focused window was firefox, then I can switch to it with super+tab, but if firefox was on ws 2, then super+tab will switch to ws 2 instead
20:47:13 <geekosaur> nothing "canned" for that unless you count https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.17.0/docs/XMonad-Actions-CycleRecentWS.html#v:toggleRecentWS
20:48:05 <unknownbeing[m]> That's the second half of it, so I was wondering if it's possible to have a dual function on one key bind
20:48:34 <unknownbeing[m]> So that it checks first if the last window was on the same ws
20:48:51 <liskin> unknownbeing[m]: might be easiest to just use https://github.com/sagb/alttab with -d 1
20:48:57 <geekosaur> you'd have to record the last window. currently that's only kept per workspace
20:51:24 <unknownbeing[m]> Hmm
20:52:01 <unknownbeing[m]> geekosaur: So could I code my own function that does what I described?
20:52:17 <unknownbeing[m]> I'd rather not resort to a third-party package
20:53:45 <geekosaur> you'd need something in the logHook to track the current window, something in ExtensibleState recording both the current and previous window (current so you know when to update previous), and the keybind uses the previous window from XS
20:54:02 <geekosaur> certainly doable, just not something simple you could just drop in
20:55:01 <Solid> this seems like an easy extensions of X.H.RefocusLast to me
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20:55:40 <geekosaur> maybe
20:55:46 <Solid> the setup is already there, one would just need to use the entire data instead of only the current workspace's history
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20:59:42 <unknownbeing[m]> <geekosaur> "you'd need something in the..." <- XS?
20:59:54 <geekosaur> hm, actually toggleFocus from that module may already do it
20:59:58 <geekosaur> ExtensibleState
21:00:04 <geekosaur> we usually refer to it as XS
21:00:11 <unknownbeing[m]> So it's definitely possible?
21:00:29 <unknownbeing[m]> My friend is curious about this feature. He wants to switch from i3
21:00:42 <geekosaur> definitely possible, may already be done (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.17.0/docs/XMonad-Hooks-RefocusLast.html#v:toggleFocus)
21:01:02 <unknownbeing[m]> Thanks!
21:01:05 <geekosaur> still requires the logHook, they just already wroteit
21:01:30 <unknownbeing[m]> That's good to hear
21:02:49 <geekosaur> (I missed it because I wasn't expecting it to be a Hook module)
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21:34:59 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> geekosaur: because I feel like xmonad is really good and what others have to offer
21:36:21 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> and why some people are sticking with i3 or qtile or herbstluftwm or bspwm or so on
21:36:55 <liskin> with i3/bspwm it might just be a personal preference for the way layouting works in those
21:37:07 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> also feel like people are hyping up wayland vs x11
21:37:29 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> liskin: if it's just layouting, i think xmonad got it all covered
21:37:29 <liskin> xmonad can emulate some of those behaviours but there are often subtle issues due to the design of xmonad core
21:37:35 <liskin> ^^
21:38:06 <unknownbeing[m]> liskin: What are the issues?
21:38:16 <geekosaur> people are hyping wayland up but I think it still has a way to go before I'd trust week-long sessions to it
21:38:19 <liskin> although for people who aren't too neurotic and who don't mind the occassional imperfection, it might just be worth sticking with xmonad anyway :-)
21:38:29 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> some people use something other than xmobar too, but idk like polybar
21:38:59 <c209e6dc-4d76-47> for me, xmonad and xmonad-contrib is out of date on arch repos so i have to use xmonad-git and xmonad-contrib-git
21:39:27 <liskin> unknownbeing[m]: can't really show a specific example as I don't use BSP with xmonad
21:40:19 <liskin> but I'd expect that trying to combine that with decorations or minimizing or fullscreen/floats can result in some hiccups
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21:41:49 <liskin> and you can't add tabs to BSP, because it's not a generic layout, it can only layout actual windows
21:42:04 <liskin> I have absolutely no idea if i3/bspwm can do any of this, though
21:42:22 <liskin> but it's something an xmonad user might expect and be disappointed with :-)
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21:52:34 <unknownbeing[m]> <c209e6dc-4d76-47> "for me, xmonad and xmonad-..." <- Why are they?! I had an issue with my version not having one of the newer features when I was setting up my config
21:52:48 <unknownbeing[m]> Isn't Arch meant to be the bleeding edge distro?
21:53:11 <unknownbeing[m]> How are they letting the xmonad package stay so far out of date?
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21:53:26 <liskin> it's only as bleeding edge as there are people willing to maintain stuff
21:53:49 <geekosaur> quite a few haskell package maintainers have defected to nix, apparently
21:54:30 <unknownbeing[m]> Ugh
21:54:37 <geekosaur> and arch has always been problematic when it came to haskell packages anyway, because they made a maintenance decision that is easier on their package maintainers but a headache for package users
21:54:40 <unknownbeing[m]> That's so annoying
21:55:04 <geekosaur> there'snobody maintaining haskell packages for debian any more either
21:55:13 <unknownbeing[m]> Why?
21:55:21 <geekosaur> all went over to nix
21:55:25 <unknownbeing[m]> Why is haskell so unloved? :(
21:56:02 <geekosaur> it's not that it's unloved, it's that many haskellers prefer nix to manage their packages these days and don't care about distro packages
21:58:27 <liskin> compared to python and rust, haskell is unloved indeed, though
21:59:12 <unknownbeing[m]> :'C
21:59:29 <unknownbeing[m]> Dunno what to recommend to my friend then. Maybe qtile?
21:59:43 <liskin> a friend of my recently said that the community has bikeshedded themselves to death
22:00:02 <liskin> (which we've been doing too, admittedly :-/)
22:00:02 <unknownbeing[m]> Qtile community?
22:00:09 <liskin> unknownbeing[m]: haskell community
22:00:51 <liskin> well you can still recommend xmonad, it's not like it's on its death bed just yet
22:01:19 <liskin> there'll always be a way to install ghc on any distro and build xmonad with it
22:01:31 <liskin> just not necessarily via a distro package :-/
22:01:44 <unknownbeing[m]> I'm wondering if I should just build xmonad from source
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23:34:17 <geekosaur> oh also as I just pointed out in #haskell, lots of packagers work not from hackage but from stackage LTS, and stackage LTS has been stuck for several months and who knows when they'll make a new LTS
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All times are in UTC on 2022-02-14.