Logs on 2022-04-19 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 04:46:27 | <abastro[m]> | geekosaur: Well I am seeing strange phenomenon |
| 04:46:53 | <abastro[m]> | Nearly identical configuration yet one crashes, the other does not. |
| 04:48:38 | <abastro[m]> | I'll try to see if it is due to the script running bunch of commands or the build file including a few more dependencies. |
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| 06:23:34 | <Solid> | liskin: thanks for taking care of the cache stuff! |
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| 09:23:12 | <Ether[m]> | Dunst hides when i spawn, resize or move windows.. |
| 09:23:26 | <Ether[m]> | Is there a quick fix? |
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| 11:46:54 | <geekosaur> | not familiar with dunst, sorry |
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| 11:47:20 | <geekosaur> | we don't support stays-on-top, except in thelimited fashion that floats are generally above tiled windows |
| 12:07:05 | <Ether[m]> | <geekosaur> "we don't support stays-on-top..." <- How do i float dunst? |
| 12:07:15 | <Ether[m]> | Mange hook? |
| 12:08:16 | <geekosaur> | manageHook, yes |
| 12:08:43 | <geekosaur> | that said it's probably already being doIgnore-d so it behaves likea notification; which means nothing will keep it on top |
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| 12:26:38 | <abastro> | geekosaur: Well I think I established that the crash is not related with xmonad path settings. |
| 12:27:08 | <abastro> | I added containers, filepath, directory, X11, unix into the `build-depends` file |
| 12:27:30 | <abastro> | Then it began crashing again when I abuse the window switching. |
| 12:40:17 | <abastro> | Has any idea? Am I importing some potentially dangerous stuffs? |
| 12:42:13 | <liskin> | Ether[m]: also Dunst makes some effort to raise itself when the stacking order changes, there are two closed issues in the xmonad repo about it |
| 12:43:01 | <liskin> | Maybe one is still open as there still are some issues with other notification daemons but Dunst should just work :-/ |
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| 12:55:03 | <geekosaur> | abastro, none of those should be dangerous and I would think someone would have heard about it by now if any of themprovoked problems with 9.2.2 as they're pretty widely used |
| 12:55:30 | <abastro[m]> | Oh no :( |
| 12:55:55 | <abastro[m]> | Hm, actually I guess I could have confused it for an actual problem. |
| 12:56:14 | <Ether[m]> | <geekosaur> "that said it's probably already..." <- Is there like a work around? |
| 12:56:23 | <abastro[m]> | By actual problem I mean, perhaps this one has different reason behind, i.e. |
| 12:57:02 | <abastro[m]> | `user error (Error in function getWindowAttributes)` |
| 12:57:19 | <abastro[m]> | (I only opened `gnome-terminal` btw) |
| 12:57:37 | <geekosaur> | Ether[m], you might check your dunst confoiguration, as liskin said it should try to keep itself on top |
| 12:58:28 | <Ether[m]> | But you said at the moment nothing does that |
| 12:58:37 | <Ether[m]> | <geekosaur> "that said it's probably already..." <- . |
| 12:58:40 | <geekosaur> | abastro[m], you'll usually get that when a window is closed. personally I'd like to know where we're not cleaning up properly after a DestroyWindow event (or perhaps trying to access the window inside that event), but it's harmless |
| 12:58:54 | <geekosaur> | Ether[m], nothing in xmonad keeps it on top |
| 12:59:02 | <Ether[m]> | Isee |
| 12:59:08 | <Ether[m]> | I see* |
| 12:59:27 | <abastro[m]> | geekosaur: Thanks! Hmm, this is quite hard to debug. |
| 12:59:32 | <geekosaur> | dunst has to do it itself, and has support to do so (I was actually trying to dig that out from the dunst website but liskin beat me to it) |
| 12:59:45 | <abastro[m]> | Maybe at this point I'd try gdb and wish luck? |
| 13:00:17 | <geekosaur> | gdb will probably notbe too much help, as the necessary information has been lost by that point |
| 13:00:57 | <geekosaur> | you probably want to ask the folks in #ghc for help, in particular there are some gdb scripts that come with the ghc source code that can be useful for examining heap structures |
| 13:01:53 | <Ether[m]> | Dunst claims otherwise; |
| 13:01:53 | <Ether[m]> | https://github.com/dunst-project/dunst/issues/678 |
| 13:04:36 | <abastro> | Oh, I see thank you! geekosaur |
| 13:04:47 | <abastro> | #ghc on libera, right? |
| 13:13:37 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 13:14:30 | <geekosaur> | Ether[m], that bug confirms that dunst is raising itself. xmonad will not like that *if* it is managing the window; you have to `doIgnore` it for that to work |
| 13:21:09 | <liskin> | it's quite likely an overrideredirect window, so it should work out of the box |
| 13:22:05 | <liskin> | Ether[m]: do you have https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/pull/275 or are you running an older version of xmonad? |
| 13:22:31 | <liskin> | still wouldn't explain the "Dunst hides when i spawn" bit but the "resize or move windows.." part is fixed by #275 |
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| 13:57:14 | <Ether[m]> | <liskin> "Ether: do you have https://..." <- Unfortunately, i am 01.5 |
| 13:57:27 | <Ether[m]> | 0.15* |
| 13:58:42 | <geekosaur> | I think at some point you'll have to upgrade |
| 13:58:42 | <Ether[m]> | <geekosaur> "Ether, that bug confirms that..." <- Yes |
| 13:58:51 | <Ether[m]> | Yes |
| 13:59:15 | <Ether[m]> | But the binary is still not in the repos |
| 13:59:17 | <Ether[m]> | Is 0.17 stable? |
| 13:59:33 | <Ether[m]> | Why is there no binary package? |
| 13:59:50 | <geekosaur> | we don't ship binary packages, that's up to your distribution |
| 14:00:34 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: The thing is, even something bleeding edge like arch doesn't have it. So i am scared its unstable |
| 14:01:28 | <geekosaur> | arch is just not upgrading its haskell packages, because even arch users are telling other arch users to use ghcup and stack instead of the packaged versions |
| 14:01:35 | <geekosaur> | becuase arch mis-packages haskell stuff |
| 14:02:14 | <Ether[m]> | I see, but is 0.17 considered stable? |
| 14:02:46 | <lyiriyah[m]> | Ether[m]: Arch's Haskell packages are broken. I use Stack instead. |
| 14:04:57 | <Ether[m]> | There is a lack of documentation for installing xmonad 0.17 |
| 14:06:08 | <Ether[m]> | https://xmonad.org/INSTALL.html |
| 14:06:57 | <Ether[m]> | It doesn't go through how the process could be made minimal. |
| 14:07:14 | <lyiriyah[m]> | ? |
| 14:07:16 | <Ether[m]> | Its basically cloning the repo and installing it |
| 14:07:35 | <lyiriyah[m]> | Yes |
| 14:07:47 | <lyiriyah[m]> | With Stack you are building from source |
| 14:08:20 | <lyiriyah[m]> | Make sure to install using ghcup and not pacman |
| 14:11:59 | <geekosaur> | it would be nice if arch at least provided static library packages for what they do package, but they only do that for ghc-bundled libraries |
| 14:12:24 | <geekosaur> | which means youget weird errors when trying to use the packaged libraries unless you know to patch everything to use -dynamic |
| 14:16:16 | <geekosaur> | yeh, even the arch wiki page for xmonad warns about the things that go wrong because of only shipping shared libraries |
| 14:16:35 | <geekosaur> | which means what arch packages *is* unstable |
| 14:16:59 | <geekosaur> | but it's all their fault; if they did things the way they're intended to be done, there would be no problem |
| 14:18:50 | <geekosaur> | we've also had problems with the AUR packaging of xmonad-git in the past, because they sometimes ignore the version bounds we put on things and then they get weird bugs |
| 14:25:38 | <abastro[m]> | Ignoring version bounds???? |
| 14:27:21 | <geekosaur> | yeh. we released a new X11 binding with a version outside the bounds for xmonad and xmonad-contrib because one binding was able to throw an exsception that code had to be ready to catch |
| 14:27:51 | <geekosaur> | they patched the version bounds of xmonad-git and xmonad-contrib-git to accept it anyway, and xmonad-git started throwing exceptions |
| 14:28:06 | <geekosaur> | it was pretty ugly |
| 14:28:37 | <geekosaur> | this was several years ago. we try to force type changes now so things like that can't happen any more |
| 14:29:34 | <abastro[m]> | Oh noo |
| 14:29:39 | <abastro[m]> | Why is arch repo managed like this |
| 14:30:16 | <geekosaur> | you would have to ask them |
| 14:30:33 | <abastro[m]> | :P |
| 14:30:36 | <geekosaur> | at this point we just tell people touse ghcup and ignore the arch repo for anything haskell related |
| 14:30:38 | <Ether[m]> | Arch used to be awesome |
| 14:30:45 | <Ether[m]> | Its getting worse.. |
| 14:30:48 | <geekosaur> | it'sfine for anything else |
| 14:31:15 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: Not really, systemd and all the broken packages |
| 14:31:16 | <geekosaur> | keep in mindthat rolling release is a lot of work as more and more packages interact |
| 14:31:36 | <geekosaur> | there'sa reason it's an uncommon way of managing distributions |
| 14:31:44 | <Ether[m]> | Some of the core packages are broken too |
| 14:32:58 | <abastro[m]> | Are many package managers like this? |
| 14:33:12 | <abastro[m]> | I wonder how they somehow work in a sense.. |
| 14:33:58 | <geekosaur> | I've managed a distribution, sort of (when I worked for C-MU we maintained a modified red hat, later suse, customized for our environment); it's quite a lot of work even doing that, much less managing the whole distribution. rolling release means it's constant instead of just during releases |
| 14:35:11 | <Ether[m]> | Wow what a pain! |
| 14:35:19 | <Ether[m]> | I pitty you.. |
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| 14:39:44 | <abastro> | geekosaur: Was there any post on the ghc irc btw? I turned off the computer for a while and #ghc does not provide logs |
| 14:40:20 | <geekosaur> | not yet |
| 14:40:29 | <geekosaur> | haven't really seen anyone around #ghc |
| 14:40:43 | <geekosaur> | you may want to monitor it via matrix so you get logs |
| 14:40:53 | <abastro> | Thank you! Yea I joined via matrix as well |
| 14:41:11 | <abastro> | So ye I can check log myself from now on |
| 14:43:32 | <geekosaur> | oh goodie, reboot in my near future |
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| 15:05:25 | <liskin> | Ether[m]: even xmonad from git is considered stable in terms of bugs, it's just the configuration API that can evolve dramatically during development cycles |
| 15:12:43 | <geekosaur> | we are very careful to not commit things that will break someone's running xmonad |
| 15:13:01 | <geekosaur> | after all, it's how you interact with the computer |
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| 15:20:47 | <abastro> | I cannot coerce over X.. :( |
| 15:21:24 | <geekosaur> | ? |
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| 15:36:53 | <abastro> | I am using ExtensibleState facility. |
| 15:37:15 | <abastro> | (Realized it would be useful for persistent state) |
| 15:37:58 | <geekosaur> | that'll break coercion, yep |
| 15:38:07 | <geekosaur> | type level shenanigans often do |
| 15:38:20 | <geekosaur> | even though XS is relatively simple as such go |
| 15:38:33 | <abastro> | It's simply because the constructor is not exported, I think. |
| 15:38:47 | <abastro> | (Or isn't it?) |
| 15:39:03 | <abastro> | That, or just `coerce` being overly fragile |
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| 15:58:00 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaurii i tested the notification issue with x.hs and to my surprise it somehow manges to keep dunst on top |
| 15:58:43 | <Ether[m]> | https://github.com/Ahanaf-Ether/xmonad/blob/stable/x.hs |
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| 16:05:51 | <abastro> | Hmm `XMonad.Config.Prime` irks me |
| 16:06:15 | <abastro> | Easier for imperative programmers.. ee |
| 16:13:49 | <geekosaur> | it's going away |
| 16:15:43 | <abastro> | Oh. |
| 16:15:47 | <abastro> | "This module is a perpetual draft and will therefore be removed from xmonad-contrib in the near future." |
| 16:16:58 | <geekosaur> | it was an experimental new way of configuring xmonad. it never really went anywhere and works poorly with many contrib modules because you have to work out how to integrate it yourself, the standard instructions generally don't work |
| 16:17:54 | <abastro> | I see |
| 16:18:13 | <abastro> | Personally I think declarative syntax works better for configs |
| 16:18:41 | <abastro> | (I guess "wrapping by ewmh etc" part is a bit confusing tho) |
| 16:19:12 | <geekosaur> | that stuff allcame after X.C.Prime anyway,mostof the combinator style stuff is within the past few years |
| 16:19:26 | <geekosaur> | ]originally you had to stick hooks everywhere |
| 16:20:04 | <geekosaur> | Ether[m], I don't know why you think throwing a thousand line config at me and expecting me to understand it immediately is going to work well |
| 16:20:05 | <abastro[m]> | Stick hooks? |
| 16:20:27 | Ether[m] | uploaded an image: (275KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XaKhFUKpHpvZheEhnBxdybcv/20220419_222008_6368108160159698788.jpg > |
| 16:20:29 | <geekosaur> | you had to manually add the hooks to your startupHook, logHook, etc. |
| 16:20:50 | <Ether[m]> | Trying to install 0.17 getting this error, do use sudo? |
| 16:21:01 | <geekosaur> | almost never do you want sudo |
| 16:21:09 | <abastro[m]> | geekosaur: <del>Oh, I mean I am okay with that</del> |
| 16:21:29 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: Any idea why i am getting this error |
| 16:22:31 | <geekosaur> | ls -ld ~/.config/xmonad |
| 16:22:40 | <geekosaur> | run that, pastebin the result |
| 16:25:49 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: Is that a capital i? |
| 16:26:22 | <abastro[m]> | I think it is l |
| 16:26:26 | <Ether[m]> | Yep |
| 16:26:29 | <abastro[m]> | You know, l |
| 16:26:33 | <geekosaur> | loweercase l for both |
| 16:26:48 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: Nothing to paste bin |
| 16:26:52 | × | abastro quits (~abab9579@220.75.216.63) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 16:26:58 | <geekosaur> | huh? |
| 16:27:03 | <Ether[m]> | It just shows contents of the directory |
| 16:27:15 | <abastro[m]> | No content in the directory I guess |
| 16:27:25 | <abastro[m]> | Eh |
| 16:27:26 | <abastro[m]> | Well |
| 16:27:31 | <geekosaur> | then you did something wrong |
| 16:27:49 | <geekosaur> | -lmeans long listing, -d means show the directory itself instead of its contents |
| 16:27:58 | <abastro[m]> | Doesn't it show permission |
| 16:28:02 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: I did? |
| 16:28:13 | <abastro[m]> | Oh |
| 16:28:51 | <geekosaur> | example output: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/cyM5clBe |
| 16:29:07 | Ether[m] | uploaded an image: (302KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/RZTnXAswxbAVfWyxokqlrbZX/20220419_222850_2750948350285123782.jpg > |
| 16:29:43 | <abastro[m]> | Why is it owned by root |
| 16:29:54 | <abastro[m]> | Now this is curious situation |
| 16:30:03 | <geekosaur> | no idea, I assume you used sudo at some point when you shouldn't have |
| 16:30:11 | <geekosaur> | sudo is a big hammer, it should be avoided |
| 16:30:27 | <Ether[m]> | I think i used it to move the file |
| 16:30:27 | <abastro[m]> | Something owned by root in home directory.. |
| 16:31:15 | <Ether[m]> | abastro[m]: Yep thats the case |
| 16:31:22 | <Ether[m]> | Had to run chown |
| 16:31:30 | <Ether[m]> | It works not, thanks |
| 16:31:33 | <geekosaur> | and I expect a lot of stuff to break if anything else in .config is owned by root |
| 16:31:35 | <Ether[m]> | Noe* |
| 16:31:42 | <Ether[m]> | Now* |
| 16:31:47 | <geekosaur> | you type almost as bad as I do :þ |
| 16:36:06 | <abastro[m]> | What is different between forkIO and forkProcess? |
| 16:38:18 | <geekosaur> | everything :) |
| 16:38:24 | <geekosaur> | forkIO creates a new thread |
| 16:38:33 | <geekosaur> | forkProcess creates a new process |
| 16:38:36 | <abastro[m]> | Oh |
| 16:38:45 | <abastro[m]> | How about forkOS? |
| 16:38:47 | <geekosaur> | linux tried to combine those in the 2.x days, it wasa disaster |
| 16:39:04 | <geekosaur> | forkOS makes a bound thread (the Haskell thread always runs on the same OS thread) |
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| 16:40:05 | <geekosaur> | you need forkOS if the thread makes use of FFI that uses thread-local storage, or similar |
| 16:40:12 | <abastro[m]> | Meh I wonder why forkProcess is not part of base |
| 16:40:31 | <geekosaur> | you can't do it on Windows |
| 16:40:39 | <abastro[m]> | In this application of xmonad, it doesn't matter but.. if you want to fork a procees.. |
| 16:40:59 | <geekosaur> | windows can spawn a new program, but not duplicate a process like forkProcess does |
| 16:41:25 | <abastro[m]> | What do you do in Windows if you want to create a copy program? |
| 16:41:35 | <geekosaur> | (not that unix's fork()+exec() turns out to be a good API) |
| 16:41:48 | <abastro[m]> | Oh wait |
| 16:42:01 | Ether[m] | uploaded an image: (266KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wAtmwwtcMzeIHjnelMBSCdWp/20220419_224131_8715269237636572978.jpg > |
| 16:42:15 | <Ether[m]> | Jeez what did i do? |
| 16:42:22 | <geekosaur> | you don't. and you don't generally want to; back in theold days the only uses of fork() were immediately followed by exec() (which is windows' "spawn") or as a workaround for lack of threads |
| 16:42:27 | <abastro[m]> | I learned it the linux way so I did not think of spawning executable as brand new |
| 16:43:05 | <geekosaur> | but then, back in the old days fork() was cheap enough that it basically worked as an alternative to threads, for most stuff |
| 16:44:07 | <geekosaur> | o.O |
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| 16:46:18 | <abastro[m]> | geekosaur: Meh, I guess I should be more familiar with building multiple executables |
| 16:46:24 | <geekosaur> | Ether[m], when you installed ghcup, did you do it as root? |
| 16:46:43 | <Ether[m]> | I think |
| 16:46:44 | <geekosaur> | althouhg I can't see why that would produce *that* error |
| 16:47:05 | <geekosaur> | but it sounds like you need to nuke ~/.ghcup and start over |
| 16:47:11 | <Ether[m]> | geekosaur: Wait what, i didn't |
| 16:47:29 | <Ether[m]> | I am on debian |
| 16:49:57 | <Ether[m]> | You dont install ghcup in debian its supposed to be installed as a dependency |
| 16:50:09 | <Ether[m]> | I think* |
| 16:50:33 | <geekosaur> | you switched from arch? |
| 16:50:46 | <geekosaur> | is your stack from debian then? |
| 16:51:00 | <geekosaur> | in that case it might be old enough that the first thing you need to do is stack upgrade |
| 16:51:16 | <Ether[m]> | I did |
| 16:51:30 | <Ether[m]> | I am follow the xmonad guide |
| 16:51:34 | <geekosaur> | unless you run debian testing |
| 16:51:45 | <geekosaur> | which might be close enough to arch to make you happy |
| 16:51:48 | <Ether[m]> | And fyi i am on debian unstable |
| 16:51:52 | <geekosaur> | ah |
| 16:52:02 | <Ether[m]> | Meh |
| 16:52:13 | <geekosaur> | I found that a little *too* unstable back when I tried it, but who knows |
| 16:52:25 | <Ether[m]> | Only for sake of trying xmonad 0.17 |
| 16:52:43 | <Ether[m]> | I think i have to edit stack.yaml |
| 16:56:05 | <geekosaur> | congratulations,k there are no hits for that gcc error in a web search :/ |
| 16:56:42 | <geekosaur> | somehow you have confused the hell out of stack |
| 16:58:58 | <Ether[m]> | Turns out i did not clone xmonad and xmonad-contrib in .config/xmonad |
| 16:59:10 | <Ether[m]> | It was in my home directory 🤣 |
| 17:05:53 | <geekosaur> | that shouldn't matter, it still shouldn't throw a weird gcc error while installing ghc |
| 17:06:18 | <geekosaur> | (I mean, I know why it runs gcc during ghc install, but it still shouldn't get that error) |
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| 22:51:49 | <Xioulious> | how do i check if xmonad is installed with xft support and if it isn't, how do i add it? |
| 22:54:13 | <geekosaur> | hm. xmonad itself doesn't use xft, contrib does |
| 22:54:39 | <geekosaur> | and I think you just have to try to reinstall it with --flags use_xft and if it does nothing then you know it already had it |
| 22:55:14 | <geekosaur> | if you're getting it from a distribution, checking is more painful |
| 22:55:19 | <Xioulious> | so when i do stack install i need to add --flags use_xft? |
| 22:55:50 | <Xioulious> | i think im lacking it due to im trying to use a certain font with my xmobar but it doesn't seem to change the font |
| 22:58:37 | <geekosaur> | xmobar does its own font handling, unrelated to xmonad |
| 22:59:16 | <Xioulious> | hmm so the xmobar doesnt have it build in then? i do set the font in the xmobar config, not the xmonad one |
| 22:59:56 | <geekosaur> | so you need to stack install xmobar with --flags use_xft (although you really want --flags all_extensions probably) |
| 23:00:35 | <geekosaur> | you can specify a font in the xmonad part, but that is just a string sent to xmobar. xmobar reads the string and loads the font |
| 23:07:00 | <Xioulious> | okay, doing an install with all extensions now so i wont run into such a problem in the future when i want to mess with it, hope it fixes it |
| 23:08:35 | <Xioulious> | yep that fixed it, ty yet again! |
| 23:09:53 | <geekosaur> | np |
| 23:14:08 | <abastro[m]> | What does use_xft do? |
| 23:14:50 | <geekosaur> | compiles in code to use fontconfig and libxft (freetype/opentype/client-side fonts) |
| 23:15:17 | <geekosaur> | otherwise it only supports server-side fonts such as "fixed" |
| 23:16:05 | <abastro[m]> | Ah, I see |
| 23:16:14 | <abastro[m]> | I guess the tabs use the fonts |
| 23:16:24 | <abastro[m]> | Hm, I need to change the fonts for the tabs! |
| 23:17:20 | <geekosaur> | that's how xmonad-contrib uses them, yes. also for XMonad.Prompt and I think GridSelect |
| 23:18:06 | <geekosaur> | xmobar lets you specify a base font for the bar and then change fonts in the middle of it with markup |
| 23:20:21 | <abastro[m]> | It is a bit annoying when the tabs can display only english, ye |
| 23:20:43 | <abastro[m]> | Actually it would be better if the tabs could display something like icon, hmm |
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| 23:24:59 | <geekosaur> | I don't think there's real icon support, the best you could do is an icon font of some variety |
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| 23:36:15 | <geekosaur> | actually it looks like I'm wrong. B&W bitmaps specified as [[Bool]], ick |
| 23:37:22 | <geekosaur> | bleh. this inspired me to finally address the tab and prompt font size issues in my own config |
| 23:37:34 | <geekosaur> | so it worked for Prompt but not for Tabbed… ?? |
| 23:38:07 | <geekosaur> | then again I'm kinda used to tab themes not really working right |
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| 23:52:35 | <abastro[m]> | B&W bitmaps? |
| 23:52:46 | <abastro[m]> | What is [[Bool]] |
| 23:53:10 | <abastro[m]> | [] [] Bool.. iterator of iterator of Bool? Wh |
| 23:54:36 | <allbery_b> | list of list of bool. rows of columns of bits |
| 23:55:49 | <abastro[m]> | Row iterator of irregular sized column iterator of bits.. |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-04-19.