Home liberachat/#xmonad: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-05-04 (liberachat/#xmonad)

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21:41:12 <moonsheep> hi there!
21:41:24 <geekosaur> hi
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21:44:03 <moonsheep> is it a good idea to run xmobar within the same process as xmonad? (something like "forkIO $ xmobar config")
21:44:11 <moonsheep> btw what's the proper way to format inline code here?
21:44:22 <geekosaur> best bet is to use a pastebin
21:44:25 <geekosaur> @where paste
21:44:25 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
21:44:42 <moonsheep> even if for <30 char snippets?
21:44:55 <geekosaur> if you use matrix instead of irc, it will format and pastebin stuff for you
21:45:10 <geekosaur> short one-line stuff is fine. irc doesn't really do formatting though
21:45:20 <moonsheep> ah, thank you
21:45:44 <moonsheep> anyway, should I run xmobar in the same process as xmonad?
21:45:49 <moonsheep> or is that as stupid as it sounds?
21:45:57 <geekosaur> anyway you can't really run other stuff in xmonad threads, unless it opens its own server connection and even then it'll be limited
21:46:44 <geekosaur> Xlib doesn't really support multithreaded. if you make a specific call before opening the server it'll lock its global state around every call which slows everything down.
21:47:01 <geekosaur> (we mostly don't but get away with it; this is probably luck)
21:47:36 <geekosaur> that is,m there are a few contribs that do X calls in threads when they probably shouldn't because we don't tell Xlib to maintain its global state lock
21:47:45 <moonsheep> but from the pov of xmonad, what's the difference of xmobar running in a separate thread than in a separate process? besides, shouldn't that make communication easier?
21:47:58 <geekosaur> it makes communication harder, actually
21:48:09 <moonsheep> oh, because X maintains process-wide state?
21:48:38 <geekosaur> xmonad's main loop is not a full main loop like in e.g. a gtk app, it supports only XNextEvent and will not handle things like timers. and its state is designed to be single-threaded
21:49:02 <moonsheep> right
21:49:15 <geekosaur> you could hypothetically use TChans to communicate but anything that would block poses problems
21:49:52 <moonsheep> I feel like it would be so beautiful to actually configure everything through haskell and have xmobar be but another xmonad module
21:50:00 <moonsheep> oh well
21:50:22 <geekosaur> someone else here (abastro[m] I think, but they seem not to be here now) was trying to do it the other day and I was explaining all the shortcomings and limitations
21:50:46 <geekosaur> we'd really6 need a more complex main loop and better handleEventLoop support for it to work
21:50:47 <moonsheep> btw, is this situation any better with wayland?
21:53:33 <geekosaur> both xcb and wayland avoid global state, but server connections are inherently single-threaded
21:53:56 <geekosaur> (think about it. a message comes in from the server: which thread should read it? you have to read it to find out)
21:54:27 <moonsheep> right
21:55:51 ← moonsheep parts (~user@185.154.9.192) (ERC 5.4 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.1))
21:56:29 <geekosaur> gtk has a subsystem for routing stuff between the main gtk thread and subthreads so that multithreaded programs can use it
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21:57:14 <geekosaur> gtk has a subsystem for routing stuff between the main gtk thread and subthreads so that multithreaded programs can use it
21:57:36 <geekosaur> xmonad doesn't and in general doesn't need it
21:58:30 <geekosaur> we're more about minimal, so putting statusbar functionality in a different app process makes more sense to us (and to the xmobar maintainers)
21:58:52 <moonsheep> so then how should my config look? a directory with all the xmobar stuff, which gets compiled into an executable that's run by xmonad on initialization?
21:59:29 <geekosaur> there is some stuff for adding status items to the stuff we send to a status bar, but the clock one provided shows the limitations: since it only runs as part of the logHook, you'd only see the time update after a focus change or etc.
21:59:37 <geekosaur> yes
22:01:41 <moonsheep> I still feel like it would be way nicer if you could communicate with things like the status
22:01:41 <moonsheep> bar with primitives like channels though
22:01:51 <moonsheep> oops
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22:02:38 <geekosaur> eventually you're putting too much stuff in one process. that's kinda the gnome way of doing things, and it has the shortcoming that your whole session dies if any component does
22:02:56 <geekosaur> (especially noticeable under wayland since one of those components is the compositor)
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22:03:04 <geekosaur> eventually you're putting too much stuff in one process. that's kinda the gnome way of doing things, and it has the shortcoming that your whole session dies if any component does
22:03:06 <geekosaur> (especially noticeable under wayland since one of those components is the compositor)
22:03:20 <moonsheep> fair enough
22:04:52 <Hash> Hey guys
22:04:58 <Hash> I lost my logs and I need you guys
22:05:29 <Hash> So, remember last year, I had this problem, where if using plasmashell kde panels with Xmonad, something changed and it won't show menus anymore or context menus
22:05:52 <Hash> So I had to edit some source in some KDE plasmaframework package, and make it compatible. I can't for the life of me find that info again
22:05:58 <Hash> I know I posted it here Xmonad channel.
22:06:10 <Hash> Can someone please, if you have a chacne, and you don't mind, grep your logs for me please?
22:06:31 <Hash> I need that patch. I'm sure I posted it somewhere as a link. I have the old compile packages and source, but I can't remember which line I edited.
22:06:35 <moonsheep> just joined today, can't really help
22:07:02 <Hash> just grep for my nickname Hash or 'stoned'
22:07:16 <Hash> And kde and xmonad
22:08:12 <Hash> I can't find it in the channel log online either.
22:14:16 <Hash> https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/174
22:14:20 <Hash> I think this might be it.
22:17:11 <Hash> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396177
22:20:43 <geekosaur> I think that's it. I found the IRC log but it doesn't have details
22:22:16 <Hash> Oh thank you so much dude.
22:22:18 <Hash> I apprecaite you
22:22:26 <Hash> This is it. :)
22:23:41 <geekosaur> it also noted the KDE folks didn't want to fix the bug, sadly
22:25:58 geekosaur wonders (possibly again) if "kdeinit" is enough to get styled KDE stuff without plasma
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22:58:25 <abastro[m]> geekosaur: It does seem like you can spawn a process which shares a TChan
22:59:23 <Hash> fixed.
22:59:25 <Hash> I don't want to upload a patch, because code changes from version to version. I'll post the exact C++ code needed to be changed. One has to intelligently apply it. Patches online won't work for this kde problem
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23:12:56 <geekosaur> abastro[m], I doubt it, it's based on shared memory and distributed STM is quite sa different problem from single-process STM
23:13:26 <geekosaur> you may still have a TChan in the child after forkProcess but it won't communicate with the parent
23:21:24 <Hash> geekosaur: save this somewhere in your bookmarks or channel bot or something
23:21:26 <Hash> https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/174#issuecomment-1118020397
23:21:32 <Hash> :)
23:21:46 <Hash> Should be helpful for anyone now using latest KDE and Xmonad together
23:22:38 <abastro[m]> geekosaur: oh, I see. So TChan does not work across process
23:23:29 <geekosaur> I think distributed software transactional memory is still Ph.D thesis material
23:26:37 <abastro[m]> I guess locks are indeed the way to go then
23:26:53 <abastro[m]> Sad haskell lacks proper locks
23:29:10 <abastro[m]> Actually I more and more realize that system tray and dm tools should fire up window managers like xmonad, not the other way around
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All times are in UTC on 2022-05-04.