Logs on 2022-05-10 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 09:35:09 | <martin2222> | Hello everyone, I want a Layout like a Multicol, but with one Window per column until say 8 columns and then add more windows to the column the focused window is in |
| 09:35:35 | <martin2222> | Right now it fills up the columns first |
| 09:38:00 | <martin2222> | I did mirror but still not quite the behaviour I want, because now it adds an entire horizontal column |
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| 11:34:21 | <geekosaur> | I think that would require writing a new layout. There is IfMax but it doesn't help here |
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| 12:16:19 | <martin2222> | kind of disappointing .. Isn't this the behaviour you would want by default? |
| 12:17:28 | <martin2222> | I have 4k monitor. I don't use all of horizontal space, so I want my windows to be vertically seperated in 4 columns first, but then I still have vertical space to spare |
| 12:17:43 | <martin2222> | however there again I don't need full 4k width |
| 12:42:57 | <liskin> | we definitely need/want a ResizableTall generalized to any number of columns |
| 12:43:12 | <liskin> | I think someone worked on that during last year's ZuriHac |
| 12:43:31 | <liskin> | unfortunately I haven't had a chance to follow up on that since :-( |
| 12:57:00 | <Solid> | martin2222: for 4k monitors there is X.L.LayoutScreens so that you can use "normal" layouts on the respective (virtual) screens |
| 12:57:09 | <Solid> | probably also a way to make that division with xrandr directly |
| 13:11:21 | <liskin> | splitting the screen is probably more suitable for ultrawides (21:9 34" or 32:9/10 40+") but a typical 27" display just needs a three-col or four-col layout, imo |
| 13:11:50 | <liskin> | admittedly a very personal/subjective thing :-) |
| 13:14:01 | <Solid> | shit, a 27" display is 4k nowadays? |
| 13:14:56 | <Solid> | to my mind 4k and "ultrawide" are still synonyms; perhaps I should update that prior |
| 13:15:05 | <geekosaur> | sadly not a lot of work has been put into handling 4K screens because X11 handles them so poorly (there's a reason people want Wayland) |
| 13:15:34 | <Solid> | from what I hear from friends, Wayland does not handle them much better |
| 13:15:45 | <geekosaur> | but it has the potential to |
| 13:15:58 | <geekosaur> | X11's design means they'll never work well |
| 13:20:05 | <dminuoso> | Solid: There's 27" 1440p monitors (which I prefer) :) |
| 13:20:18 | <dminuoso> | 27" 1440p has about the same DPI as a 24" 1080p |
| 13:20:28 | <dminuoso> | So I dont have any issues with X11/Xmonad here |
| 13:20:32 | <Solid> | ah I see |
| 13:20:34 | <Solid> | that sounds pretty nice |
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| 13:42:37 | <liskin> | I'm fairly sure there are <20" 4k displays as well somewhere |
| 13:43:26 | <liskin> | but 4k is most definitely not a synonym for ultrawide, it's a higher res screen, its aspect ratio is a different thing altogether |
| 13:44:38 | <geekosaur> | the first 4k screens were ultrawide but it's spread elsewhere, yeh |
| 13:44:44 | <liskin> | although the naming really is silly; 4K indeed refers to the horizontal resolution according to wikipedia, but that's a fairly useless measure |
| 13:45:46 | <fizzie> | 2x 25" 1440p has been my sweet spot for a while now. Not too high-DPI to have to worry about All That™. |
| 13:48:36 | <liskin> | dminuoso: 27" 1440p is 109ppi whereas 24" 1080p is 92, so I actually find the 27" closer in angular pixel density to 14" 1080p at the typical distances I use these at |
| 13:49:23 | <liskin> | fizzie: do you have abnormally good visual acuity or do you run somewhat larger fonts? |
| 13:49:40 | <liskin> | (perhaps sitting closer to the screen works as well though :-)) |
| 13:49:43 | <geekosaur> | I used to see that well… |
| 13:54:25 | <liskin> | hm, you're probably right, it's still much less than a fullhd 14" laptop |
| 13:54:40 | <liskin> | (less ppi) |
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| 14:00:46 | <fizzie> | A combination of some of those factors, I guess. I seem to be using a 15px tall pixel font in a terminal these days. |
| 14:02:21 | <fizzie> | Here at the office I've 2x 27" 1440p (the default corporate offering was either that or 1x 32" 4K), and I think I unconsciously sit a bit farther back. |
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| 14:11:32 | <martin2222> | It's 32" UHD Philips 328E1CA I got used for 280 bucks |
| 14:12:18 | <martin2222> | I think I will stick with the multiCol for now. I works fine, but for more than 4 windows I will stick to grid layout |
| 14:13:30 | <[Leary]> | martin2222: If you give Grid the right ratio, it might do what you want from the start. |
| 14:13:46 | <geekosaur> | you can also use IfMax to switch layouts based on the number of windows |
| 14:15:01 | <martin2222> | Don't want to hassle with multiple virtual screens. That seems like a headache |
| 14:17:05 | <martin2222> | [Leary] What would that be? (4:1) |
| 14:20:46 | <[Leary]> | It's been a while since I player with grid ratios, but I recall having to choose something much closer to square than I actually wanted in order to get the desired behaviour. You probably have to play with it a bit. |
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| 15:49:42 | <martin2222> | Bin bisher noch nicht ganz überzeugt von Gentoo. Während xmonad 0.17 bereits seit einem halben Jahr von Arch offiziell unterstützt wird, ist bei Gentoo 0.15 gerademal als testing verfügbar. |
| 15:49:52 | <martin2222> | Jetzt muss ich da herumfrickeln mit 0.15 |
| 15:50:54 | <martin2222> | Schon klar, dass es schwieriger diese Toolchains auf die Kette (Haha) zu bekommen, als bei binärbasierten Distros, aber das macht es irgendwie noch unpraktischer als es ohnehin schon ist. |
| 15:51:43 | <geekosaur> | channel? |
| 15:52:02 | <martin2222> | oops sorry |
| 15:52:09 | <geekosaur> | (and, er, I had to pull up translate to read that, my German is pretty weak) |
| 15:53:32 | <geekosaur> | also, various distros are still catching up. most are based on Stackage for Haskell stuff, and it took a long time for Stackage LTS to get updated |
| 15:53:47 | <Solid> | martin2222: arch is still on 0.15, if that changes your opinion :> |
| 15:54:11 | <Solid> | there's a PR to update gentoo's version but it's stalled I think |
| 15:55:13 | <martin2222> | Is it, who has adopted it then? |
| 15:55:50 | <Solid> | https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pull/23597 |
| 15:55:59 | <Solid> | I believe the PR was made by noex |
| 15:56:04 | <geekosaur> | lots of people use xmonad from git because we're prone to not release often enough :) |
| 15:56:17 | <Solid> | that too, yes |
| 15:56:21 | <geekosaur> | and we always make sure git HEAD runs |
| 15:56:30 | <Solid> | and building with stack is very convenient tbh, on any distro |
| 15:56:39 | <geekosaur> | because it's kinda bad for your main computer UI to suddenly crash |
| 16:12:18 | <martin2222> | l, |
| 16:12:37 | <martin2222> | ok I will now try it with cabal, but I'm afraid it will dependencies left and right |
| 16:13:01 | <geekosaur> | dependency footprint is fairly small, even with contrib |
| 16:13:12 | <geekosaur> | the stuff with large dependencies is in xmonad-extras |
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| 16:49:22 | <martin2222> | Ok now it can't find any XMonad modules .. |
| 16:49:31 | <martin2222> | Do I need to set certain env variables? |
| 16:50:50 | <geekosaur> | did you also install xmonad-contrib? also if you used stack to install then you need a stack.yaml, your best bet is to look at https://xmonad.org/TUTORIAL.html |
| 16:51:17 | <Solid> | I think they said they'd use cabal |
| 16:51:18 | <geekosaur> | if you used cabal then you need to do `cabal install --lib xmonad xmonad-contrib` to export the libraries |
| 16:51:43 | <geekosaur> | in your xmonad config directory |
| 16:52:40 | <martin2222> | ah thank you |
| 16:53:46 | <martin2222> | still don't like this arrangement. The whole thing with gentoo is that have use-flags so portage only compiles what you need. |
| 16:54:48 | <martin2222> | Right now portage does not know anything about xmonad, so it's just a matter of time until I fall on my face with this I suspect. |
| 16:55:15 | <Solid> | doesn't sound very likely to me |
| 16:55:52 | <Solid> | xmonad doesn't really have much in the way of external dependencies except for xlib |
| 16:57:08 | <martin2222> | What about if I were to use a compositor? |
| 16:58:25 | <martin2222> | something like compton |
| 17:04:29 | <Solid> | how would that affect xmonad? |
| 17:18:27 | <geekosaur> | xmonad works fine with compton, I've run it with that for years |
| 17:24:12 | <martin2222> | ok then so it is, but hard to believe, when you can't even make xmobar work xP |
| 17:24:31 | <martin2222> | where can I troubleshoot xmobar not showing up? |
| 17:24:40 | <martin2222> | when everything compiles just find |
| 17:24:44 | <martin2222> | *fine |
| 17:25:32 | <geekosaur> | generally I'd look for where the session output is going (are you using startx or a display manager? the former will be on the original console, the latter is usually ~/.xsession-errors) |
| 17:25:57 | <geekosaur> | xmobar gets cranky really easily |
| 17:29:06 | <martin2222> | It does complain about .xmonad/stack.yaml not existing but other than that everything seems fine |
| 17:29:49 | <geekosaur> | that shouldn't matter (and shouldn't be a complaint, it's just running through all the things it's checking to see how to rebuild a config) |
| 17:30:58 | <martin2222> | It is falling back to build with ghc because neither .xmonad/build nor that yaml could be found, but it does recompile with success |
| 17:31:16 | <geekosaur> | right |
| 17:31:50 | <martin2222> | other than that I see nothing on stdout when using startx |
| 17:32:06 | <martin2222> | and xmobar I don't see either lol |
| 17:32:13 | <geekosaur> | I use a build script because I have a fairly complex config (which among other things uses dbus), people who install xmonad with stack typically use a stack.yaml to point xmonad's recompile to stack's libraries, otherwise it uses ghc directly |
| 17:32:36 | <martin2222> | do I have to start xmobar in my xinitrc? |
| 17:32:51 | <geekosaur> | not usually |
| 17:33:01 | <geekosaur> | did you follow the tutorial to set it up? |
| 17:34:41 | <martin2222> | Yes I did include xmobarProp in xmobar.hs and .xmobarrc exactly as described |
| 17:37:36 | <martin2222> | Can I maybe use some echo command in .xmobarrc to test if it is run at all? |
| 17:37:54 | <martin2222> | ah mom |
| 17:38:42 | <martin2222> | no :( no spelling mistakes |
| 17:39:17 | <geekosaur> | no, .xmobarrc is pretty stupid |
| 17:39:35 | <geekosaur> | and it only looks like Haskell, so you can't import Debug.Trace either |
| 17:44:29 | <Solid> | see if you can launch it in a terminal |
| 17:44:51 | <Solid> | next best guess; when xmobar doesn't appear at all it's often a font issue |
| 17:46:53 | geekosaur | is un-fond of xmobar and really wishes people would run something more sensible like polybar, to be honest |
| 17:47:31 | <geekosaur> | we go through this kind of debugging "okay, so why isn't it starting?" once a week or so, it seems |
| 17:49:24 | <geekosaur> | and if you're missing a plugin its diagnostic is "unexpected 's'" |
| 17:52:22 | <martin2222> | hahahaaa |
| 17:52:36 | <martin2222> | ok that's fucked up |
| 17:53:04 | <martin2222> | I just saw that and thought: Surely I must have fucked up the bracketing |
| 17:54:03 | <geekosaur> | you probably need to re-emerge with some additional USE flags to get all the plugins |
| 17:54:29 | <martin2222> | I now use cabal so no re-emerge |
| 17:55:01 | <geekosaur> | -fall_extensions |
| 17:57:51 | <martin2222> | As local USE-flag for xmobar? |
| 17:58:10 | <geekosaur> | yes, that's the cabal equivalent of a USE-flag |
| 17:58:19 | <geekosaur> | it's shorthand for turning on all the flags |
| 17:58:54 | <geekosaur> | (specific to xmobar, there's no general one because flags can also control building on different platforms, picking backends for e.g. math packages, etc.) |
| 18:04:50 | <martin2222> | ok .. I did that and it is still seeing unexpected 's' .... |
| 18:05:30 | martin2222 | increasingly desperate now stripping down .xmobarrc gradually to localize the error |
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| 18:13:29 | <martin2222> | ah so it seems like ALSA was the issue |
| 18:13:55 | <martin2222> | I installed alsa using portage so maybe it doesn't find alsa? |
| 18:24:35 | <geekosaur> | it should find it, you wouldn't have gotten xmobar to compile otherwise |
| 18:32:17 | <martin2222> | what was cabal --lib command again? |
| 18:33:38 | <geekosaur> | shouldn't be relevant here, unless you're switching to using xmobar in its library mode with a real config file |
| 18:34:08 | <martin2222> | ok so I did install it using cabal but didn't make a difference as you said |
| 18:34:54 | <geekosaur> | pastebin your .xmobarrc? |
| 18:34:58 | <geekosaur> | @where paste |
| 18:34:58 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 18:53:52 | <martin2222> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/G9lgVOYL |
| 18:54:22 | <martin2222> | that was a bit complicated, because I don't have compiled chromium yet |
| 18:56:00 | <geekosaur> | so far it looks all right aside from confusing indentation (luckily the config file format isn't indentation sensitive) |
| 18:56:48 | <martin2222> | tabs vs spaces? |
| 18:57:34 | <geekosaur> | also shouldn't matter |
| 18:57:42 | <geekosaur> | it only looks like Haskell, it isn't actually |
| 18:58:01 | <geekosaur> | even ghc's error messages at their worst are better than those of xmobar's parser :/ |
| 18:58:57 | <geekosaur> | I do wonder about the `"--on", ""` after the "--", which doesn't seem to be documented |
| 18:59:32 | <martin2222> | it is in the tutorial |
| 19:00:21 | <Solid> | it's documented for the volume options |
| 19:00:24 | <geekosaur> | hm, guess that means it works then, I followed the tutorial here in testing for someone else last week |
| 19:00:25 | <Solid> | and alsa takes these as well |
| 19:00:38 | <martin2222> | won't run without it anywys |
| 19:01:42 | <geekosaur> | still looks fine to me |
| 19:03:09 | <geekosaur> | config runs fine here, hm |
| 19:04:17 | <martin2222> | what are the alternatives again? |
| 19:04:50 | <geekosaur> | polybar, taffybar, lxstatus, a few others |
| 19:05:03 | <geekosaur> | polybar's probably most minimal of those |
| 19:05:25 | <martin2222> | lxstatus from lxde? |
| 19:05:35 | <Solid> | if the config works and it's still a parsing error then I reckon some flag is still not set |
| 19:06:15 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 19:06:21 | <geekosaur> | (to both) |
| 19:06:33 | <geekosaur> | -fall_extensions should include alsa though |
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| 19:10:22 | <martin2222> | cabal install xmobar -fall_extensions |
| 19:10:28 | <martin2222> | still doesn't work |
| 19:10:30 | <martin2222> | whatever |
| 19:11:08 | <martin2222> | I think I'm tempted to go with lxstatus it might not be very minimal, but as a longtime lxde user, it's a great status bar |
| 19:11:36 | <martin2222> | let's just see how many dependencies are pulled in |
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| 20:01:23 | <geekosaur> | one way or another I'll get this on my phone… |
| 20:04:07 | <BrandonAllbery[m> | Now now I just have to figure out how to use my correct Nick |
| 20:05:32 | BrandonAllbery[m | is now known as geekosaur[m][m] |
| 20:05:37 | <geekosaur> | whoops |
| 20:07:15 | <geekosaur[m][m]> | Testing |
| 20:07:22 | <geekosaur> | weird |
| 20:08:12 | <geekosaur> | whatever, it works, I can irc from my phone now |
| 20:09:05 | <liskin> | \o/ |
| 20:09:21 | <liskin> | You'll be here non-stop now won't you? |
| 20:09:41 | <Solid> | hah |
| 20:10:05 | <geekosaur> | phone and laptop are both set DND while I'm trying to sleep, but I have at least some chance of being here at other times :) |
| 20:10:30 | <geekosaur> | haven't been able to do this since I last had a droplet and znc set up |
| 20:11:14 | <liskin> | Okay :-) |
| 20:49:09 | <geekosaur> | hm, #haskell:matrix.org doesn't seem to be bridged and there's no #haskell:libera.chat apparently |
| 20:51:07 | <geekosaur> | at least that's what element on the phone is claiming |
| 20:51:38 | <geekosaur> | oh, it's there, just not in the index |
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| 21:32:27 | <liskin> | It's not in the index of desktop Element either, because the index is just matrix.org. There's a dropdown somewhere where you can change the index for search. |
| 21:33:52 | <liskin> | Also there's a Haskell "space" somewhere where you can find all the interesting rooms. No idea how that looks on mobile, or how that looks anywhere at all. Haven't logged to Matrix in weeks because the UX is worse than Slack and Discord and Jabber combined. |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-05-10.