Logs on 2022-05-20 (liberachat/#xmonad)
| 00:00:10 | <geekosaur> | unless part of the remit is to write a more stable compositor than anyone else has to date |
| 00:03:40 | <woobilicious> | most distros are shipping wayland default KDE and gnome now by default now. |
| 00:04:41 | <woobilicious> | ahh I found a fork of waymonad. |
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| 00:15:46 | <geekosaur> | yes, and we have many stories of people trying wayland for a while and going back to X11 because wayland crashed too much |
| 00:16:07 | <geekosaur> | we don't plan to join the modern wave of crashy window managers |
| 00:17:08 | <geekosaur> | (waymonad is crashy too because wlroots is no more stable than any other wayland compositor) |
| 00:29:09 | <vrs> | are they written badly or is it some kind of design bug? |
| 00:31:30 | <geekosaur> | compositors are hard too write. it took three tries to get something stable for X11 |
| 00:33:20 | <geekosaur> | it's even more complicated when the compositor is also the display server, as it is under wayland |
| 00:34:23 | <jao> | geekosaur, just checking: is picom that "something stable"? |
| 00:35:10 | <geekosaur> | no, compton was. there was a compositor before xcompmgr |
| 00:35:50 | <geekosaur> | sorry, no. xcompmgr -> xcompmgr-dana -> compton -> picom |
| 00:35:57 | <jao> | oh well, i've never had any problems with picom (or compton, for that matter) |
| 00:36:08 | <geekosaur> | compton was the first one that reliably didn't either crash or hang |
| 00:36:22 | <jao> | yes, matches my experience |
| 01:20:14 | <woobilicious> | SimulaVR is using wlroots with Haskell for their 3d desktop. Maybe decent bindings should be the first thing on the agenda. |
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| 02:13:47 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | does anyone understand gridselect well enough to be able to tell my why when I use it, everything freezes? |
| 02:15:12 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | I've been contemplating making a gtk based replacement for it, but I would prefer to simply allow it to fork into it's own process and have an event hook or something |
| 02:15:24 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | well, it's own thread, really |
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| 02:53:59 | <^[> | jakeStateless-Fa: Does everything freeze? I was under the impression that updates to windows just aren't being shown while it's active. |
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| 02:55:31 | <^[> | My guess is that it makes a new window that covers the entire screen, but doesn't bother clearing it, so it still shows the screen contents from when it was activated. |
| 02:55:57 | <^[> | You can't see what's changed under the window or click through it, so things appear frozen. |
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| 08:13:16 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | <^[> "You can't see what's changed..." <- yep, that |
| 08:14:12 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | it suspends all other keyboard activity though, and never can be drawn-over, so I'm not sure if it does create a window... but perhaps... |
| 08:16:39 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | meaning, I can't `M-1..9`/etc while it's active, which's understandable/desired, but again, the window refresh is annoying |
| 08:16:59 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | plus, I just watched a video on haskell based GTK apps, and I'm itching to try that out |
| 08:17:23 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | the guy did everything far too manual, I have some clever dynamic loading ideas ;) |
| 08:28:10 | <liskin> | jakeStateless-Fa: primary reason is that gridselect runs synchronously in xmonad and grabs the keyboard, so the normal event loop doesn't pick up any keybinds or events or anything |
| 08:28:48 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | yeah, figured |
| 08:29:42 | <liskin> | there's been a separate implementation of gridselect on hackage (or maybe just github) since forever, though |
| 08:30:06 | <liskin> | but the problem is there isn't any standard way of getting its output back to xmonad |
| 08:30:32 | <liskin> | one might hack together something using ServerMode and xmonadctl, but it's nothing well documented :-( |
| 08:30:42 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | what if it was launched via a pipe? |
| 08:31:04 | <liskin> | doesn't help, xmonad main loop doesn't have facilities for watching pipes |
| 08:31:12 | <liskin> | it's really stupid, tbh |
| 08:31:22 | <liskin> | it just synchronously calls XNextEvent |
| 08:31:34 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | mm |
| 08:31:51 | <liskin> | so any time you want anything async in xmonad (e.g. X.Util.Timer, or ServerMode, or whatever) you end up sending X events |
| 08:32:22 | <liskin> | it shouldn't even be that difficult to fix this, just nobody ever did |
| 08:32:24 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | yikes |
| 08:32:40 | <liskin> | maybe in the past there were issues around Xlib and threads |
| 08:32:56 | <liskin> | but it works rather well in xmobar, so it'd probably work equally well in xmonad too |
| 08:35:08 | <liskin> | ideally you'd just fire off a thread in xmonad and have a global channel/queue through which it could send stuff back to the main thread |
| 08:35:31 | <liskin> | but we don't have that so we've been doing silly X event hacks forever :-) |
| 08:36:23 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | so, it'd be challenging to make xmonad multithreaded? |
| 08:36:34 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | like, at all? |
| 08:37:03 | <liskin> | well that's the thing… probably not really |
| 08:37:19 | <liskin> | just hasn't been done :-) |
| 08:38:00 | <liskin> | (stuff would get broken, reported and fixed, but that's just how it always is) |
| 08:52:57 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | hm, well why not add the framework then? |
| 08:54:12 | <liskin> | just not enough time/priority really |
| 09:00:04 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | on another note, https://github.com/SimulaVR/haskell-mcwayface may be the first step forward in making waymonad function/making Xmonad into Wmonad... |
| 09:00:31 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | that license though... we could probably get the only contributor to change that... for our sakes |
| 09:00:59 | <jakeStateless-Fa> | the guy's still active on gh |
| 09:29:28 | <Solid> | jakeStateless-Fa: be the change you want to see! (with regards to us having TVars) |
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| 11:46:23 | <geekosaur> | someone else was actually poking at that recently, I don't recall who or how it turned out but can check my logs later |
| 12:03:04 | <liskin> | I think mgsloan was running some patched version of xmonad core but that was just handling of sigchld, not really a solution to the blocking nextEvent |
| 12:03:15 | <liskin> | Maybe you mean something else |
| 12:04:50 | <geekosaur> | no, past few days in here, someone wanted to do basically what jakeStateless-Fa is talking about with a TVar linking it to the core |
| 12:05:53 | <geekosaur> | it was abastro[m] and we were discussing a TChan, not simply a TVar |
| 12:06:51 | <geekosaur> | they were also hoping for distributed STM but I'm pretty sure they'd be writing a PhD thesis in that case :) |
| 12:09:41 | <geekosaur> | https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lcxmonad?id=63815#trid63815 |
| 12:16:22 | <geekosaur> | (handling of sigchld is historically a portability nightmare, the best way to do it on linux doesn't work on *bsd at all and the best way to do it on *bsd is incompletely implemented on linux) |
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| 12:17:04 | <geekosaur> | I may have those reversed |
| 12:17:55 | <geekosaur> | I know we rejected a rewrite of sigchld handling back when sjanssen was still involved because it broke his system |
| 12:18:59 | <geekosaur> | (sjanssen was on netbsd. dons started out on netbsd and moved to arch) |
| 12:24:37 | <liskin> | Oh, I see. Completely missed that conversation |
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| 17:08:24 | <Zevv> | Hi all; for reasons of paranoia and power saving, I'd like to SIGCONT/SIGSTOP my firefox on focus enter and leave; is there something off-the-shelf that can do this? |
| 17:13:29 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.17.0/docs/XMonad-Layout-Stoppable.html |
| 17:13:58 | <geekosaur> | not quite focus (it's on layout visibility) but does the SIGSTOP thing |
| 17:14:31 | <Zevv> | excellent, that'll do |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-05-20.