Logs on 2022-12-07 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 01:34:27 | <nexilva[m]> | Hello |
| 01:34:54 | <nexilva[m]> | I have 4-5 google chrome windows open, each with arbitrary # of tabs. |
| 01:35:09 | <nexilva[m]> | I want to send each chrome window to a specific workspace |
| 01:35:24 | <nexilva[m]> | I cannot figure out a way to differentiate them using xprop |
| 01:35:39 | <geekosaur> | browsers make this annoyingly difficult |
| 01:35:57 | <nexilva[m]> | WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "Family Guy Season 20 Episode 10 Full Episode - Family Guy 2022 NoCuts 1080p - YouTube - Google Chrome" |
| 01:35:57 | <nexilva[m]> | _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "Family Guy Season 20 Episode 10 Full Episode - Family Guy 2022 NoCuts 1080p - YouTube - Google Chrome" |
| 01:36:11 | <nexilva[m]> | Other than this identifying bit (tabs), I can't find an identifier. |
| 01:36:35 | <nexilva[m]> | Is there a possible way to manually hack xprop and give each window a unique identifier? |
| 01:36:40 | <geekosaur> | not only can't you distinguish them, but the properties you see after they've settled are not the ones the manageHook sees; you have to use DynamicProperty |
| 01:37:08 | <geekosaur> | I don't understand "manually hack xprop" |
| 01:37:40 | <nexilva[m]> | Nevermind that |
| 01:37:47 | <geekosaur> | you can certainly manually set properties on a window, but that's just a more annoying way to manually shift them to the workspaces you want |
| 01:38:01 | <nexilva[m]> | So this DynamicProperty, how might I detect for those consistently |
| 01:38:46 | <geekosaur> | hypothetically a browser plugin could set properties for you, but you'd still need DynamicProperty to detect them as JS doesn't run until the window is mapped which is too late for the manageHook |
| 01:39:29 | <nexilva[m]> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.17.1/docs/XMonad-Hooks-DynamicProperty.html |
| 01:39:56 | <nexilva[m]> | Ok, I got that part. |
| 01:42:13 | <nexilva[m]> | How would a browser plugin do this? open a new tab on each window and set the window title, which I can then detect with dynamic property |
| 01:42:17 | <nexilva[m]> | Something like that? |
| 01:42:54 | <geekosaur> | or possibly set an X11 property, if it has access (but I doubt it does) |
| 01:43:17 | <geekosaur> | tampermonkey or similar should be able to do something xmonad could catch |
| 01:44:14 | <nexilva[m]> | I looked at that a few ways to set xprop custom vars but that's when launching the program or something but we're launching chrome once and getting 4 windows. |
| 01:44:55 | <nexilva[m]> | Or, if I can make sure that only TAB #1 on every window is default selected, then that's consistent and I can detect that. |
| 01:52:07 | <nexilva[m]> | https://www.reddit.com/r/xmonad/comments/6mf6zb/comment/dk2ywl8/ |
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| 04:37:09 | <AskYourself[m]> | I'm getting some strange behaviour. I switched my terminal from Alacritty to Wezterm. Now when I'm in a workspace, if I open Wezterm from rofi, it opens to the project dir, but if I open it with my terminal opening keybind, it opens to ~/. Any idea why that would be? |
| 04:39:54 | <_Ity[m]> | AskYourself[m]: What behavior do you desire? |
| 04:40:27 | <AskYourself[m]> | I want terminal to open to the project dir, if opened within the project dir via terminal keybind. |
| 04:40:50 | <_Ity[m]> | Not sure I understand |
| 04:41:02 | <_Ity[m]> | Opened within the project dir? |
| 04:41:07 | <AskYourself[m]> | Yes. |
| 04:41:13 | AskYourself[m] | sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2fb25a15f9bcab66f4bf9ac80c060835e0644eab |
| 04:41:46 | <AskYourself[m]> | So there's a project. And the behaviour I should get (and which I was getting with Alacritty) is that if I spawn a terminal within the workspace, this terminal will be opened to the project dir. |
| 04:41:55 | <AskYourself[m]> | But now it's not doing that unless I open it from rofi.. |
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| 04:42:11 | <_Ity[m]> | Ah, sorry, I am still new to xmonad, I can only help with generic Linux or ricing stuff |
| 04:44:04 | <_Ity[m]> | With that said, a good idea would be to investigate what made alacritty spawn right |
| 04:44:29 | <AskYourself[m]> | Ok now this is the really weird part. |
| 04:44:29 | <_Ity[m]> | Oh |
| 04:44:30 | <AskYourself[m]> | Now alacritty isn't doing it either. |
| 04:44:30 | <AskYourself[m]> | Lol. |
| 04:44:34 | <AskYourself[m]> | 🤦♂️ |
| 04:44:37 | <AskYourself[m]> | Yeah, it's very weird. |
| 04:44:37 | <_Ity[m]> | Those bugs are the worst |
| 04:45:06 | <AskYourself[m]> | Yeah I really don't know what's going on. |
| 04:45:54 | <_Ity[m]> | If you could describe what projects are, I might be able to help despite not knowing much Xmonad beyond the basics |
| 04:46:20 | <_Ity[m]> | Just with generic advice |
| 04:46:31 | <AskYourself[m]> | It's from Dynamic.Projects. |
| 04:47:15 | <AskYourself[m]> | You can see my projects here in my dotfiles: |
| 04:47:16 | <AskYourself[m]> | https://gitlab.com/IsaacBrown92/dotfiles/-/blob/main/modules/xmonad/xmonad.hs#L106 |
| 04:47:29 | <_Ity[m]> | I know very little about Xmonad, what do projects do? |
| 04:47:36 | <AskYourself[m]> | Basically it's a record composed of a project name, directory, and spawn command. |
| 04:47:48 | <AskYourself[m]> | So for ex, her is my "dot" dir: |
| 04:48:30 | AskYourself[m] | uploaded an image: (35KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/renNhnerKxfgZLYnCRObDhrl/image.png > |
| 04:48:35 | <AskYourself[m]> | Notice in xmobar that the workspaces are project names as opposed to numbers. |
| 04:49:11 | <_Ity[m]> | I see |
| 04:49:12 | <AskYourself[m]> | That's basically what it does, creates named workspaces with default directories and commands that run when you open them (for ex opening [mus] opens spotify). |
| 04:49:31 | <_Ity[m]> | Oh, so it overwrites keybinds? |
| 04:49:47 | <AskYourself[m]> | I couldn't speak to that. |
| 04:49:51 | <AskYourself[m]> | It's not clear to me that this happens though, maybe. |
| 04:50:21 | <_Ity[m]> | I guess I don't understand then |
| 04:50:41 | <AskYourself[m]> | Yeah, this I think is Xmonad specific, I don't think it's general Linux/ricing. |
| 04:50:50 | <AskYourself[m]> | I appreciate the effort of course. |
| 04:51:27 | <AskYourself[m]> | If someone in here can tell me why my projects randomly stopped working properly that would be awesome though :P. |
| 04:52:06 | <_Ity[m]> | If I could understand what projects do in terms of IO, I could help narrow down the problem |
| 04:53:24 | <_Ity[m]> | * If I could understand what projects do in terms of IO, I might be able help narrow down the problem |
| 04:53:33 | <AskYourself[m]> | It's very weird. It's like rofi understands that it's in a project context, but the keybinds don't. |
| 04:54:25 | <AskYourself[m]> | Like if I open Wezterm in the project workspace via rofi, it'll open to ~/.dotfiles (as it should), but if I open Wezterm in the project workspace via the terminal spawning keybind, it'll open to ~/ (which it should not). |
| 04:55:28 | <AskYourself[m]> | _Ity[m]: If you wanna know something specific, you can ask, but I'm not that advanced and I don't know the library well, so I doubt I'd be able to answer much. |
| 04:56:05 | <_Ity[m]> | AskYourself[m]: The generic way to spawn a process within a dir is fork,chdir,exec |
| 04:56:50 | <_Ity[m]> | It is possible that instead it's using some different method that rofi interprets and uses the standard method, but wezterm doesn't |
| 04:57:53 | <_Ity[m]> | It is also possible that the terminal keybind is ignoring w/e project is doing |
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| 05:10:16 | <AskYourself[m]> | Hmm. |
| 05:10:32 | <AskYourself[m]> | So I can get alacritty behaving normally by rebuilding xmonad, clicking outside the workspace, then coming back. |
| 05:10:38 | <AskYourself[m]> | Does not work with Wezterm though.. |
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| 15:04:13 | <noze> | this probably gets asked a lot around here, but what's the latest about xmonad and wayland? |
| 15:06:35 | <geekosaur> | same as before, none of us know how to write it., wlroots seems to be improving of late though |
| 15:10:30 | <liskin> | I will undoubtedly regret saying this but I don't think lack of knowledge is what's blocking me. Knowledge can be acquired, it takes time, and time is being spent elsewhere unfortunately. |
| 15:11:21 | <liskin> | Funny thing is that the waymonad project kind of struggles with a similar thing. |
| 15:11:30 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: Is anyone even on it? |
| 15:11:44 | <dminuoso> | ongy seems to have stopped waymonad long time ago |
| 15:12:18 | <geekosaur> | there's a later fork by L-as but I'm pretty sure he gave up too |
| 15:12:32 | <geekosaur> | we'll probably have to pay someone to write it |
| 15:12:37 | <liskin> | Last time I checked, Las was working on some grand new framework for generating low-level code, which will supposedly help with wlroots integration. |
| 15:12:44 | <geekosaur> | which is why we're piling up contributions with OC |
| 15:13:04 | <dminuoso> | Yeah, you were sorely missed in Zurich. |
| 15:13:32 | <liskin> | But I suspect it's a bit of an excuse as that codebase will find use in their blockchain endeavors much sooner. |
| 15:13:43 | <dminuoso> | My brilliant and cunning plan to present Emacs on Bare Metal was thwarted by liskin's inaptitude. We had a great team of managers, but liskin did not perform. If you had been there geekosaur, we could have revolutionized the world. |
| 15:13:50 | <liskin> | So it's just the same old "life takes us different ways" situation |
| 15:14:38 | <liskin> | dminuoso: why did we choose such a silly project in the first place though? |
| 15:14:43 | <dminuoso> | liskin: But seriously, maybe we just need to make waymonad run in a blockchain to secure unlimited funding. We're just a tad bit too late. |
| 15:14:49 | <dminuoso> | I dont recall. |
| 15:14:59 | <liskin> | Had we thought of doing a Wayland compositor in emacs we could've been famous |
| 15:15:18 | <liskin> | It hit the HN front page recently. |
| 15:15:37 | <dminuoso> | Im not entirely kidding with that statement regarding blockchain. If you sell the idea with the right attributes, it is much easier to get a deep pocket funding your idea. |
| 15:15:53 | <liskin> | :-) |
| 15:16:16 | <dminuoso> | While ycombinator does a lot of venture capital, being on HN does not guarantee it. |
| 15:16:18 | <liskin> | None of us is particularly good at this non-coding soft stuff though |
| 15:16:37 | <liskin> | Took all my mental reserves to get us where we are |
| 15:16:45 | <liskin> | And I haven't recharged since |
| 15:17:18 | <dminuoso> | One might argue that spending that much energy on an X11 based window manager when the future of desktop had been clear for a long time might have been misguided. |
| 15:18:32 | <liskin> | Well the idea was that we'd either get enough income to actually have a stab at working for the future, or that I'd learn something |
| 15:18:59 | <liskin> | I don't consider that a failure at all as we made huge progress on both goals |
| 15:19:48 | <dminuoso> | The idea should have been sold to Red Hat. :po |
| 15:20:27 | <liskin> | If I didn't live in a high cost of living location (for personal/family reasons), working part time on Wayland xmonad would be quite realistic |
| 15:21:22 | <dminuoso> | Where do you currently live? |
| 15:21:51 | <liskin> | London |
| 15:22:22 | <dminuoso> | Ah I see. Where about in London? |
| 15:22:49 | <liskin> | My rent is like triple or quadruple of xmonad's GitHub Sponsors income. |
| 15:22:52 | <liskin> | It's insane |
| 15:23:08 | <dminuoso> | I've heard crazy stories about rent in london yeah |
| 15:23:16 | <liskin> | https://www.blackhorsebeermile.co.uk/ right here |
| 15:23:18 | <_Ity[m]> | <geekosaur> "same as before, none of us..." <- Is that really the state? |
| 15:23:22 | <liskin> | (I know, lol) |
| 15:24:11 | <dminuoso> | liskin: Okay I understand the "personal reasons" part now. >:) |
| 15:24:18 | <dminuoso> | Cheers! |
| 15:24:21 | <liskin> | :-D |
| 15:24:46 | <dminuoso> | Must be quite a stink in the air with that many breweries around. |
| 15:25:02 | <dminuoso> | It's not nice running around the large breweries here in Hannover. |
| 15:25:04 | <liskin> | Well I would move to Czechia on a whim if that didn't affect anything else |
| 15:25:46 | <liskin> | Not really, it's usually shadowed by the sweet smell of a giant bakery that's nearer than the breweries |
| 15:25:52 | <_Ity[m]> | This convo is getting interesting |
| 15:26:06 | <_Ity[m]> | Czech native here |
| 15:26:06 | <liskin> | Also microbreweries aren't that smelly as big commercial ones |
| 15:26:15 | <liskin> | And also I love the smell anyway |
| 15:26:16 | <dminuoso> | Ah these are small I see |
| 15:26:46 | <liskin> | _Ity[m]: where exactly? I'm from Brno |
| 15:27:55 | <_Ity[m]> | Oh, I prefer not to share the city ^^ |
| 15:29:53 | <_Ity[m]> | Are you native too? |
| 15:30:26 | <geekosaur> | _Ity[m], we're all X11 people, we don't know Wayland and mostly don't trust it quite yet |
| 15:30:49 | <geekosaur> | like I said, we'd have to pay someone to write a Wayland version |
| 15:31:04 | <geekosaur> | or hope L-as decides to work on it again |
| 15:31:12 | <_Ity[m]> | I am also an X11 person and don't quite like Wayland, but I've been wanting to write an impl for a while |
| 15:31:31 | <liskin> | _Ity[m]: yep, born there, spent 30+ years there |
| 15:31:31 | <_Ity[m]> | * a while just to see |
| 15:31:56 | <liskin> | It's still my home. |
| 15:32:31 | <_Ity[m]> | O I see, why did you move out, if I may ask? |
| 15:33:16 | <liskin> | Wife's an academic. Having worked abroad is a requirement for senior academic jobs in CZ. |
| 15:33:36 | <_Ity[m]> | Oh, I guess that's true |
| 15:34:13 | <_Ity[m]> | Academic jobs pay so little here |
| 15:34:32 | <liskin> | There are exceptions if you're better than literally everyone else (a friend of mine used this) but she's not. |
| 15:34:59 | <_Ity[m]> | I see |
| 15:35:21 | <_Ity[m]> | Tbh imo academia kinda sucks from what I've heard |
| 15:38:28 | <liskin> | That's highly subjective. Corporations suck. Startups suck. Public service sucks. Everything sucks if it's not for you. |
| 15:38:48 | <noze> | things that suck about academia: terrible pay, high mobility requirement in the first 10 years of your career, no job security |
| 15:39:38 | <noze> | but of course, as liskin says, everything sucks (: |
| 15:40:16 | <_Ity[m]> | liskin: It's mostly stuff that I heard from people working there |
| 15:40:37 | <_Ity[m]> | I cannot say anything myself, I am just a poor hobbyist |
| 15:41:33 | <liskin> | _Ity[m]: yeah you're not wrong :-) |
| 15:54:51 | <AskYourself[m]> | geekosaur: Why don't you trust Wayland? |
| 15:55:43 | <geekosaur> | (I have a counseling telehealth in a few minutes, will be gone for ~ an hour) |
| 15:55:58 | <geekosaur> | too many stories ofr people losing their sessions because the compositor crashed |
| 15:56:29 | <geekosaur> | the X server has had a couple decades to become stable; if the compositor crashes I can just restart it. not so with Wayland |
| 15:56:37 | <geekosaur> | (gone) |
| 16:01:33 | <liskin> | dminuoso: just walked outside and there's a smell of brewing in the air ♥️ |
| 16:25:31 | <AskYourself[m]> | geekosaur: Ah ok. Yeah the stability seems great. I just have the impression |
| 16:25:31 | <AskYourself[m]> | that Wayland is where things are going in the future, I think X11 support is gonna stop for certain things, etc. But I like Xmonad so much that I would need to lose some major functionality to switch. |
| 16:25:56 | <AskYourself[m]> | Also I'll try to get that bug report in today, I've written it down and won't forget, just a bit busy w exams. |
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| 16:30:36 | <_Ity[m]> | Personally I am against Wayland due to its monololithic nature |
| 16:30:52 | <_Ity[m]> | I sincerely hope that it's not the future at its current state |
| 16:33:07 | <_Ity[m]> | s/state/approach to things/ |
| 16:37:32 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | <geekosaur> "too many stories ofr people..." <- People will lose their session if the X server crashes as well. |
| 16:38:17 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | That said, Wayland is nearing completion of its handoff and reconnect extension: |
| 16:38:17 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/283 |
| 16:44:17 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | Reconnect is already working on the big compositors and toolkits, more support coming soon |
| 16:44:31 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | <_Ity[m]> "Personally I am against Wayland..." <- Why? |
| 16:53:21 | <liskin> | once that reconnect stuff works that does change the situation for the better quite a bit |
| 16:53:44 | <liskin> | my wife's gnome-shell needs to be restarted a couple times per week, but the X server itself has been up for months |
| 16:53:54 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | It already works and is implemented in for example KWin/SDL/Qt |
| 16:54:17 | <liskin> | if she had wayland she'd have lost her session a hundred times |
| 16:55:25 | <liskin> | should be noted that in xmonad's case, it's not just about not losing a session when the WM crashes, it's more about being able to reload config without losing the entire session |
| 16:55:42 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | Yeah, gnome is an interesting case since it was designed tightly coupled to this issue |
| 16:56:06 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | The gnome/gtk people have been working on the reconnect extension afaik |
| 16:56:11 | <liskin> | so even with the old design of things, I thought we'd have a compositor process that would be just wlroots + rpc, fairly stable-ish, and then separate WM process |
| 16:56:19 | <BrynDiscord[m]> | And there are more contemporaneous designs in general like Cosmic |
| 17:01:18 | <liskin> | oh, fun: https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-comp/blob/master_jammy/src/shell/workspace.rs#L67-L74 |
| 17:03:10 | <liskin> | didn't know Cosmic's a thing; definitely interesting to watch |
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| 20:41:50 | <noze> | yeah it's a bit tragic that none of the existing compositors makes it easy to implement a separate window manager |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-12-07.