Logs on 2023-02-24 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 16:06:23 | <HB[m]> | Unreal. I cry for a day. I had to call for help. I am not well. I am on multiple psychiatric medications. I go through hell for two days... and geekosaur messages me and tells me that I'm playing at some autism card. |
| 16:06:41 | <HB[m]> | What the hell is wrong with you people? |
| 16:07:17 | <HB[m]> | Takes me this long to finally be somewhat okay again, I get online, and another shitty statement. Wow. Why? What is the point or purpose in saying something like that to me? |
| 16:07:40 | <HB[m]> | If you can't be a decent human being to me, then don't talk to me at all. |
| 16:07:55 | <HB[m]> | What did I ever do to you folks to deserve this sort of treatment? That I shared a thing that Ubuntu users here might find useful? |
| 16:08:16 | <HB[m]> | Nazis man. Xmonad Nazis. Can't talk about ANYTHING if it's not Xmonad, right? That's a great sin? |
| 16:08:43 | <HB[m]> | Thanks for ruining another of my days. I can't find love, acceptance, or connection anywhere. Everyone just says shitty things to me. |
| 16:09:14 | <HB[m]> | You couldn't just let it go? You had to message me privately and mock me? |
| 16:09:30 | <HB[m]> | I genuinely thought that the Xmonad community was decent people. |
| 16:09:44 | <HB[m]> | That finally I'd found a community that accepts me and I can contribute and help... |
| 16:09:53 | <HB[m]> | Looks like I'm unwanted again. |
| 16:10:06 | <HB[m]> | Why did they even bring me into this world? Why am I alive, man? |
| 16:10:14 | <HB[m]> | No one wants me |
| 16:10:26 | <HB[m]> | No one wants to be friendly to me |
| 16:10:41 | <HB[m]> | Everyone is always looking to scold on me for something. |
| 16:12:28 | <HB[m]> | What are you trying to do? Get me triggered again, so I would freak out like this, so you can ban me with now a new excuse, oh look he's offtopic or soemthing |
| 16:12:33 | <HB[m]> | Is that your tactic? That's very low. |
| 16:12:55 | <HB[m]> | All I did was share a fucking link to a fucking tool, man. Why are you doing this to me? |
| 16:13:32 | <HB[m]> | I can't find a single community of decent kind compassionate intelligent human beings who care about each other. You don't care about me. I might as well not even exist, right? |
| 16:13:46 | <HB[m]> | I'm just a worthless piece of shit who deserves to die. |
| 16:16:35 | <mazte[m]> | <HB[m]> "Unreal. I cry for a day. I had..." <- Wait, what happened here? |
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| 16:17:15 | <HB[m]> | I made the great mistake of trying to be a part of the Xmonad community. |
| 16:17:25 | <HB[m]> | People didn't like that. |
| 16:18:24 | <geekosaur> | that is an extremely uncharitable view of what happened |
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| 16:18:42 | <HB[m]> | All you'll have left is a clique oriented community, where anyone else is shat upon, like I was. |
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| 16:18:52 | <mazte[m]> | <HB[m]> "I'm just a worthless piece of..." <- You don't deserve to die, nor are you a horrible human. I'm not too sure what the context is there, but that whole link thing seems like miscommunication, so try not to overthink it, if possible. I genuinely hope you're alright and you get proper help if you're in distress. |
| 16:19:05 | <HB[m]> | I'm NOT okay, man. |
| 16:20:26 | <geekosaur> | also I would like to point out that topics are what IRC channels are about. if it would get enough use to justify it we could set up an offtopic channel, or just use #xmonad-unlogged for it since it doesn't get much use |
| 16:20:50 | <HB[m]> | So no Ubuntu users exist here? |
| 16:20:54 | <HB[m]> | No one can find that script useful? |
| 16:21:15 | <HB[m]> | Is that why you're treating me like this? |
| 16:21:16 | <HB[m]> | IRC channels on topic bullshit Nazi policiung |
| 16:21:17 | <HB[m]> | This is how you drive people away. |
| 16:21:24 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: Got it. Will do. |
| 16:21:24 | <HB[m]> | This is how you destroy a community. |
| 16:21:26 | <HB[m]> | So go for it. |
| 16:21:37 | <liskin> | This is getting blown out of proportion. |
| 16:21:39 | <HB[m]> | Destoy the community; becuase YOU disliked reading a thing abou tubuntu |
| 16:21:40 | <HB[m]> | go head. |
| 16:21:50 | <mazte[m]> | HB[m]: I know a few. I'll tell 'em to check it out later. Thanks |
| 16:21:50 | <HB[m]> | I'm the worst person right |
| 16:21:59 | <HB[m]> | No one needs to check it out |
| 16:21:59 | <HB[m]> | |
| 16:22:05 | <HB[m]> | no one even needed to say anthing |
| 16:22:12 | <liskin> | geekosaur literally said one thing, which may have been a tad insensitive, but it was just one fucking line for fucks sake |
| 16:22:17 | <HB[m]> | YOU decided to hurt me and make it into a huge deal. |
| 16:22:17 | <HB[m]> | No one aske dyou to. |
| 16:22:28 | <HB[m]> | No one ask you to msg me pricvatgely and mock me. |
| 16:22:31 | <HB[m]> | This coul dh ave been over. |
| 16:22:52 | <HB[m]> | Yet you decided to PM me and tell me that I'm playhing at some game of autism and cards or soemthing |
| 16:23:05 | <HB[m]> | Look, if you can't be a decent person to me. Then don't tlak to nme at all. |
| 16:23:05 | <HB[m]> | I did nothing wrong |
| 16:23:10 | <HB[m]> | I didn't do anything bad |
| 16:23:16 | <HB[m]> | Why is this happening to me? |
| 16:23:18 | <liskin> | HB[m]: can you please calm down a bit? |
| 16:23:23 | <HB[m]> | Why is this happening at all? |
| 16:23:31 | <liskin> | it's not like you're the only autistic in here |
| 16:23:31 | <HB[m]> | I'm trying man. |
| 16:23:40 | <HB[m]> | I'm trying hard. |
| 16:23:51 | <HB[m]> | This is not a comparison. |
| 16:23:57 | <HB[m]> | Please stop with the comparisions. |
| 16:24:01 | <liskin> | but you're interpreting things in a really really weird way :-( |
| 16:24:08 | <HB[m]> | Everyone;'s issues are their own and personal and not comparable to others. |
| 16:24:19 | <HB[m]> | You decided to mock me today. This could have been done wioth and moved on. |
| 16:24:30 | <liskin> | I don't think I did |
| 16:24:36 | <HB[m]> | Not you |
| 16:24:39 | <HB[m]> | Sorry geek did |
| 16:25:05 | <HB[m]> | He send me mesage, I click join room, and then ugly stuff to read about how I'm faking it and playing soem game and card |
| 16:25:07 | <HB[m]> | instead of anything kind or compassionate. |
| 16:25:25 | <HB[m]> | "Hey man, ti's h ard, but you'll be okay. I didn't mean anything" |
| 16:25:32 | <liskin> | that doesn't sound like him |
| 16:26:03 | <HB[m]> | Somethbing like that ... no. Insteadl I get mocked. |
| 16:26:03 | <HB[m]> | I'ms orry man |
| 16:26:03 | <HB[m]> | I'm sorry I treid to be part of the community and shared something I mad that iothers might find useful |
| 16:26:03 | <HB[m]> | I'm not trying to sell anyting |
| 16:26:09 | <HB[m]> | I'm not rying to get people to think I'm cool or something |
| 16:26:23 | <HB[m]> | I'm just trying to be freindly, man. |
| 16:26:24 | <HB[m]> | Please don't hurt me. |
| 16:26:42 | <liskin> | would it help if someone else saw what he messaged you and tried to fix the miscommunications? |
| 16:27:03 | <liskin> | sending a wall of text to everyone is likely to make more people mad at you, to be honest :-( |
| 16:27:22 | <HB[m]> | Yes |
| 16:27:26 | <HB[m]> | It's all my fault. |
| 16:27:39 | <liskin> | we're not implying that |
| 16:28:05 | <liskin> | just that how you're dealing with it isn't very productive |
| 16:28:17 | <HB[m]> | Imagine a lifetime, 40 years of constant abuse and put downs by the world. |
| 16:28:19 | <HB[m]> | So please excuse me if I don't magiucally trust you after what he said to me |
| 16:28:39 | <liskin> | (yeah, I know first hand how hard it is to deal with thins in a productive way when you're angry and/or overwhelmed) |
| 16:28:40 | <HB[m]> | I have a difficult time trust peopel after thety hurt me. |
| 16:28:40 | <HB[m]> | I am trying very hard. |
| 16:28:49 | <HB[m]> | I'm not angry. |
| 16:28:57 | <HB[m]> | Anger is definitely not the emotions I feel |
| 16:29:13 | <HB[m]> | I feel hurt, sad, rejected, put down, feel alone, lonely, no friends. no support, everyone scolding me. |
| 16:29:16 | <HB[m]> | That's how it feels. |
| 16:29:42 | <geekosaur> | what I said, for the record, is that I'm at least as autistic as he is |
| 16:30:03 | <HB[m]> | I feel liek everything is dark and I'm all alone like a little baby and no one is around and I'm screamign and crying |
| 16:30:04 | <HB[m]> | that's how this feels insid emy mind. |
| 16:30:05 | <HB[m]> | I'm sorry I have problems |
| 16:30:05 | <HB[m]> | Maybe I should just leave and not be here |
| 16:30:39 | <HB[m]> | English is not my firstn lanagbue |
| 16:30:42 | <HB[m]> | I am not Western or American |
| 16:30:48 | <geekosaur> | \it's taken me decades to learn how to manage it well enough to not be a mess online |
| 16:30:50 | <HB[m]> | I dont' think the way you do |
| 16:30:50 | <HB[m]> | I don't speak the way you do |
| 16:31:06 | <HB[m]> | Then perhaps you should have empathy for people like me |
| 16:31:31 | <HB[m]> | You clearly see me being severely upset. Then what was the point of saying to me I'm playing some game or cards |
| 16:31:32 | <HB[m]> | That implies you thiunk I'm bullshitting |
| 16:31:35 | <HB[m]> | Using austism as some excuse |
| 16:31:38 | <HB[m]> | or something |
| 16:31:42 | <HB[m]> | That's another put down. |
| 16:31:55 | <HB[m]> | Do you not see? |
| 16:32:02 | <HB[m]> | If you ahve breen through it |
| 16:32:05 | <HB[m]> | and our my grandfather's age |
| 16:32:07 | <HB[m]> | odler man |
| 16:32:13 | <liskin> | I see how that could have been interpreted as that, yeah |
| 16:32:17 | <geekosaur> | it has more to do with how you're doing it |
| 16:32:19 | <HB[m]> | isn't it your responsibility to ensure your younger brethren sdon't go through it |
| 16:32:23 | <HB[m]> | isntead of putting them throughit |
| 16:32:55 | <HB[m]> | You as an older man, it's you responsibility to ensure your younger ones don't needlessly suffer what you did. |
| 16:33:15 | <HB[m]> | Instead of tough love stuff and inflicting that same thing on them |
| 16:33:18 | <HB[m]> | It's not a lesson |
| 16:33:21 | <HB[m]> | Toiugh love doens't help us |
| 16:33:39 | <liskin> | but do you know what exactly would help you? |
| 16:33:40 | <HB[m]> | It hurts us. |
| 16:33:48 | <liskin> | apart from undoing the past, which we clearly can't do |
| 16:33:49 | <HB[m]> | I understand these things at 42. You're probably least 20+ my senior |
| 16:33:53 | <HB[m]> | you ought to know better. |
| 16:34:20 | <HB[m]> | I don't want to trouble to anyone |
| 16:34:26 | <HB[m]> | I'm feel hjorribl that this is going on |
| 16:34:46 | <HB[m]> | I am horribly troubled that because of me this is happenign in here |
| 16:34:48 | <HB[m]> | that you have to spend your time and effor ton this |
| 16:34:49 | <HB[m]> | I don't liike this |
| 16:34:51 | <HB[m]> | I don't like bother people |
| 16:34:52 | <HB[m]> | I don't like trouble people |
| 16:34:54 | <HB[m]> | I just wanted to help |
| 16:34:56 | <HB[m]> | That is all. |
| 16:35:28 | <HB[m]> | What would help me? Kindness. Compassion. |
| 16:35:38 | <HB[m]> | Explicitly telling me what I need to hear instead of hinting at it |
| 16:35:45 | <liskin> | don't worry about that really, we're fine with a little off topic from time to time |
| 16:35:49 | <HB[m]> | I need love, kindless, friendship, acceptance, things I have never known. |
| 16:35:56 | <HB[m]> | I thought I found that in the only commu8nity here |
| 16:36:11 | <HB[m]> | Someone to tel lme you'r enot lying or bullshitting |
| 16:36:32 | <HB[m]> | Sorry that life is hard bu tyou'll be okay |
| 16:36:33 | <HB[m]> | we accept and love you |
| 16:36:33 | <HB[m]> | we're here for you |
| 16:36:35 | <HB[m]> | I go no one |
| 16:36:39 | <HB[m]> | you have friends an familiies |
| 16:36:44 | <HB[m]> | I got no one. |
| 16:36:48 | <HB[m]> | I'm literally on the end of my line man. |
| 16:36:56 | <HB[m]> | I could give up any moment and just die. |
| 16:37:08 | <liskin> | yeah don't give up and die |
| 16:37:16 | <HB[m]> | Im crying right now as I tyhpe this |
| 16:37:16 | <liskin> | we accept you |
| 16:39:04 | <HB[m]> | I'm sorry I feel bad for all this |
| 16:39:22 | <HB[m]> | Lose lose for me. |
| 16:39:26 | <liskin> | everything's going to be fine |
| 16:39:29 | <liskin> | don't worry |
| 16:39:33 | <HB[m]> | I willl feel bad about this entire ordeal for days on end. Because myt mental problem wasted your time |
| 16:39:44 | <liskin> | not that much of it |
| 16:39:55 | <liskin> | shit happens to all of us |
| 16:40:02 | <liskin> | we don't hate you for it |
| 16:40:14 | <HB[m]> | I don't have any bad feelings for geek |
| 16:40:25 | <HB[m]> | I think he is a good person and helpful |
| 16:40:26 | <mazte[m]> | We love and accept you, you're alright and aren't really bothering us. Just keep in mind that it can be hard to process what's happening and reply accordingly. Some of us aren't good socially, while others aren't necessarily well equipped to understand others to a good extent. This is why I said that this seems to be a miscommunication and that a good way to go about it would be to acknowledge it and just keep it in mind for the future. |
| 16:40:36 | <HB[m]> | But I understand he also have same prolblem as me and I can understand that. |
| 16:41:02 | <HB[m]> | Thank you. |
| 16:41:03 | <HB[m]> | I do feel better now. |
| 16:41:22 | <HB[m]> | I am not only on medications but also in therapy for this too |
| 16:41:46 | <HB[m]> | The medication I take helps me deal with others |
| 16:41:49 | <HB[m]> | It's prescribed for autism so autistic people won't be so irritable with normal people |
| 16:41:51 | <geekosaur> | you might see if you can contact your therapist now and have a talk |
| 16:42:07 | <geekosaur> | mine's repeatedly told me I can contact her whenever I need to |
| 16:42:11 | <HB[m]> | ok |
| 16:42:30 | <HB[m]> | Please don't scold me on things becuase I'm not normal and I am extremel sensitive to it. |
| 16:42:51 | <HB[m]> | If you think I made a mistake or posted a link that's not acceptable, then just be forthcoming and direct with me |
| 16:42:52 | <geekosaur> | also, and I do mean this well even if I'm not expressing ot very well, try not to focus on self-pity. it'll only eat you alive from the inside |
| 16:42:58 | <HB[m]> | "Hey, don't share that stuff here." |
| 16:43:00 | <HB[m]> | Done deal. |
| 16:43:23 | <mazte[m]> | HB[m]: Gotcha |
| 16:43:39 | <HB[m]> | If you say to me, "how exactly is XYZ" I will more than likely not take that well. |
| 16:44:00 | <HB[m]> | I will feel challenged, reprimanded, scoldled, all negative things. |
| 16:44:12 | <HB[m]> | I appreciate forthcomingness, directness, but not sarcasm or cutting statemetns. |
| 16:44:25 | <mazte[m]> | HB[m]: Because it is hard to interpret? |
| 16:44:26 | <HB[m]> | Robotically is fine with me. Emotionless communication is fine with me. |
| 16:44:31 | <HB[m]> | Yes. I do not know this |
| 16:44:40 | <mazte[m]> | Understandable |
| 16:44:41 | <HB[m]> | My disability is that I cannot interpret peopel's intentions. |
| 16:44:47 | <HB[m]> | I can know my mom and dad all my luife |
| 16:44:58 | <HB[m]> | and I will still constantly misundertstand them and think that they are tryhing tio hurt me |
| 16:45:09 | <HB[m]> | My famiy and friends have to be careful in how they approach me otherwise I freak out. |
| 16:45:31 | <liskin> | I have the same, just less severe I think |
| 16:45:32 | <HB[m]> | I have metnal disabilities. Things I am not capable to do physically. |
| 16:45:42 | <HB[m]> | I have to work extra hard to not misunderstand otehrs. |
| 16:46:06 | <liskin> | one can try to consciously focus on trying to interpret things in a charitable way, but it does break down when one's tired or stressed |
| 16:46:11 | <HB[m]> | I don't ask the world to modify themselves for me. |
| 16:46:19 | <mazte[m]> | liskin: same, albeit I mean this in the "it is hard to understand others" sort of sense |
| 16:46:38 | <HB[m]> | I simply ask, if you can show me a bit of coutesy and change your approach to me, that'd be great. If it's too much to ask of you, then np, just don't approach me. |
| 16:46:40 | <mazte[m]> | social context, I suppose |
| 16:46:50 | <liskin> | mazte[m]: I think I literally have this same thing where I tend to interpret some things as attacks on me |
| 16:47:11 | <HB[m]> | I will actively misunderstand robbers and violent people tryhing to hurt me as friendly |
| 16:47:18 | <liskin> | it's sometimes downright amusing when things calm down afterwards |
| 16:47:21 | <HB[m]> | You may have some difficulty with it |
| 16:47:26 | <HB[m]> | but my brain cannot process this. |
| 16:48:18 | <HB[m]> | I do not know or can read people's intentions. I don't process this in my brain. |
| 16:48:30 | × | werneta quits (~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 16:48:31 | <mazte[m]> | HB[m]: I'll try. If I don't, feel free to remind me |
| 16:48:45 | <liskin> | like this one time when our boss had a presentation and said that the migration to Outlook was a success, and my brain instantly went into "what the fuck are you saying I don't exist are you saying this abomination of a thing that made my life miserable was a win? I'm gonna report you to HR immediately for offending me you motherfucker" |
| 16:49:29 | <HB[m]> | It's a constant storm inside the mind. |
| 16:49:34 | <HB[m]> | Not a moment of rest or peace. |
| 16:49:37 | <HB[m]> | It's exhuasting. |
| 16:50:24 | <mazte[m]> | liskin: Ironically enough, I tend to interpret some statements and emotions as not emotional, if that makes sense. It makes for awkward and sometimes strange/funny situations |
| 16:50:31 | <HB[m]> | If I can finally trust a person and know they're not trying to hurt me, then they can joke around, say things, be sarcastic, whatever. I don't mind at that point. |
| 16:50:41 | <HB[m]> | But I don't know what helps me to get there. |
| 16:51:00 | <liskin> | mazte[m]: I think I need an example |
| 16:51:01 | <mazte[m]> | HB[m]: I get you, I think |
| 16:51:01 | <HB[m]> | Perhaps repeated offtopic interactions with that person |
| 16:51:02 | <HB[m]> | On a personal level. |
| 16:51:08 | <HB[m]> | Friendliness |
| 16:51:16 | <HB[m]> | Then I don't mistrust people. |
| 16:51:27 | <HB[m]> | Generally. I still misundstand intentions |
| 16:51:40 | <HB[m]> | But it's not as bad. |
| 16:52:04 | <HB[m]> | The hardest thing on this planet is communication with others. |
| 16:52:09 | <geekosaur> | I'm still trying to figure out where I was being "sarcastic". |
| 16:52:10 | <HB[m]> | Our internal dictionairies do not match |
| 16:52:21 | <HB[m]> | Maybe you were not |
| 16:52:28 | <geekosaur> | biut that might be as much my internal dictionary not matching |
| 16:52:40 | <HB[m]> | I interpreted it that way maybe due to my upset |
| 16:52:47 | <HB[m]> | Now that I think about it |
| 16:52:53 | <HB[m]> | What reason would yhou have to want to hurt me? |
| 16:53:03 | <HB[m]> | None that I can reason. |
| 16:53:16 | <HB[m]> | So more than likely in my emotinonal state I misunderstood your inteintions |
| 16:53:23 | <HB[m]> | Even though I 've known you for a few years |
| 16:53:28 | <HB[m]> | We get along and are friendly together |
| 16:53:46 | <HB[m]> | Yet I still misunderstood your intentions |
| 16:54:04 | <HB[m]> | Just like my family... it's no different. I can't do this skill mentally inmy brain |
| 16:54:07 | <HB[m]> | I have to work extra hard to not think people are trying to hurt me. |
| 16:54:25 | <HB[m]> | 4 decades of mental abuse will fuck up any brain. |
| 16:55:43 | → | kora9 joins (~kora@user/Kora9) |
| 16:56:17 | <mazte[m]> | <liskin> "mazte: I think I need an example" <- Back when I was in school, a girl asking me to a dance, but I, being the genius I am, laughing at it because I interpreted as a joke, and her practically almost slapping me due to how it came off — the following days were what I can only describe as extremely awkward. Apply that same general logic to various situation, then you can say bingo |
| 16:56:23 | <kora9> | Is it possible to make dual-monitor xmonad sane with independent workspaces for each monitor? The weird interconnectedness between them makes absolutely no sense to me |
| 16:56:59 | <Solid> | kora9: there is an IndependentScreens module |
| 16:57:23 | <Solid> | (but I would encourage you to at least try to get used to XMonad's model—it'll feel natural after a while, I promise :) |
| 16:57:26 | <mazte[m]> | HB[m]: Understandable. I'm glad we came to an understanding and spoke about it |
| 16:57:29 | <liskin> | mazte[m]: that's a good one, yeah |
| 16:57:38 | <kora9> | Solid: Oh nice, does it work for what I'm trying to achieve? I want 4 workspaces per monitor, 1-4 is monitor 1 and 5-9 is monitor 2 |
| 16:57:52 | <HB[m]> | I'm sorry if I made you feel bad geekosaur |
| 16:58:02 | <HB[m]> | Please forgive me and my mental issues. |
| 16:58:21 | <kora9> | Solid: I tried, but it's so bizarre! :D Is there a good doc that simply explains what's going on with it? |
| 16:58:29 | <mazte[m]> | I'm gonna stop replying now that others are asking topic relevant questions |
| 16:59:18 | <Solid> | kora9: I mean, the basic idea is that all monitors simply share one set of workspaces |
| 16:59:53 | <Solid> | so switching workspaces has to do *something* because you can't show the same workspace on two monitors |
| 17:00:18 | <Solid> | and the most natural thing to do (maybe this is "your brain on XMonad") would then be to swap them |
| 17:01:11 | <mazte[m]> | s/situation/situations/ |
| 17:01:21 | <liskin> | but this being xmonad, you can choose what happens when you switch |
| 17:01:37 | <Solid> | ah yes, there's a non-greedy view as well |
| 17:01:49 | <liskin> | so if you swap greedyView for view, it just switches to the other monitor if that already displays that workspace |
| 17:01:54 | <kora9> | Solid: Oh, so that's what's going on. Maybe it'll make more sense to my brain now that I know to expect that selecting an existing workspace swaps it |
| 17:02:18 | <kora9> | Solid: Yes, I tried using W.view which seemed moderately more sane but still didn't seem independent? |
| 17:02:33 | <liskin> | yeah view isn't meant to be independent |
| 17:02:52 | <Solid> | yes it's to be seen as a less… "aggressive" version of greedyView |
| 17:03:02 | <kora9> | To be honest, most of xmonad is too big to fit in my brain, but I love what it does so much that I'm really trying to understand it :) |
| 17:03:04 | <liskin> | switching to a workspace already visible on another monitor is disruptive in one way or another |
| 17:03:15 | <liskin> | either it swaps, or it forces you to move your head |
| 17:03:35 | <liskin> | (and possibly also your mouse, if you're not using UpdatePointer) |
| 17:05:04 | <kora9> | Solid: I think I'm starting to understand where I got confused before. I switched to a workspace on my second monitor expecting it to focus my second monitor, and instead it swapped. I suspect that what I *should've* done would be to first switch focus to the second monitor *and then* select that workspace, correct? |
| 17:05:43 | <Solid> | yes, exactly |
| 17:06:07 | <kora9> | Solid: Thanks. I'll give it another go, with the swap explanation in my head it's immediately making more sense |
| 17:06:25 | <Solid> | you can probably set up keybindings such that M-5 to M-9 always first focuses the second monitor, and then switches to the respective workspace (and the other way around with M-1 to M-4) |
| 17:06:36 | <Solid> | but not sure if that'd be even more confusing :) |
| 17:06:48 | <kora9> | Yeah that might be more confusing I think |
| 17:06:57 | <kora9> | I actually sort-of want to ditch workspaces entirely and just use groups |
| 17:07:28 | <kora9> | I really liked using groups with cwm. I've implemented a shoddy version of it in my xmonad config, but haven't had the time to make it work well yet |
| 17:08:00 | <geekosaur> | there's already DynamicWorkspaceGroups in contrib, and I think an alternative version is in a PR |
| 17:08:21 | <Solid> | maybe this'll motivate liskin to upstream that one module :> |
| 17:08:47 | <liskin> | what one module? |
| 17:08:53 | <liskin> | do I really have anything related to this? |
| 17:09:51 | <Solid> | wasn't there an issue recently in which Ivan wanted to upstream something that you wrote? |
| 17:09:53 | <geekosaur> | weren't you discussing this with someone the other day in a PR? |
| 17:09:56 | <geekosaur> | that, yes |
| 17:10:03 | <geekosaur> | or an issue |
| 17:10:08 | <Solid> | which AFAIK was related to exactly this "group" concept |
| 17:10:33 | <liskin> | well it may have enabled someone to build something group-related, hm |
| 17:10:40 | <liskin> | haven't actually looked into that bit |
| 17:10:58 | <geekosaur> | Ivan was clearly thinking in terms of groups |
| 17:11:58 | <liskin> | yes I see it now |
| 17:12:24 | <liskin> | a way to attach metadata to workspaces and read/set that metadata |
| 17:12:31 | <liskin> | s/metadata/a bit of data/g :-) |
| 17:13:15 | <liskin> | hm, my old WorkspaceNamed module would actually benefit from it as well |
| 17:13:52 | <liskin> | it carries its own patched impl of swapping workspaces so that the names are swapped as well |
| 17:14:20 | <liskin> | so many things to do and so little time :-( |
| 17:15:22 | geekosaur | resembles that |
| 17:15:41 | <geekosaur> | although it looks like others are now carrying the torch on refiguring workspace layers |
| 17:16:37 | <kora9> | Solid: Re-enabled greedyView and I'm immediately finding it more usable now that I know to expect the swaps. Now I just need to figure out how to make my second monitor xmobar show the right workspace for that monitor :) |
| 17:16:39 | <geekosaur> | probably for the best, one reason I haven't been pushing forward on it is I can't see how to fix the floating "layer" with it, only how to support EWMH layers properly (or as properly as possible given the StackSet) |
| 17:17:06 | <geekosaur> | I think there's already something for that? |
| 17:20:39 | <mazte[m]> | Correct me if I'm under some misconception, but is there some way to resize the master pane in, say, the tall and regular tiled layouts when there's only two windows in the workspace? |
| 17:21:22 | <geekosaur> | shouldn't the regular one work? |
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| 17:22:37 | <mazte[m]> | I'm honestly not sure. If I use the tall or regular tiled layout, I can't resize the master pane until I add an extra window in the stack |
| 17:23:01 | <mazte[m]> | I can send my config, if that'd help. The mirror tiled layout behaves the same |
| 17:23:30 | <geekosaur> | hm. just worked for me but I'm using TwoPane so it kinda has to work 🙂 |
| 17:23:44 | <liskin> | oh, this talk about exciting new layer developments inspired me to check opencollective and xmonad has exactly $10k in balance \o/ |
| 17:24:56 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: If that's another layout, I'll give it a try and see whether that works |
| 17:25:03 | <geekosaur[m]> | I thought we were getting pretty close to that |
| 17:25:13 | <geekosaur[m]> | and yes, that's an alternative layout in -contrib |
| 17:25:41 | <geekosaur[m]> | I don't use Tall or Mirror Tall |
| 17:25:52 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur[m]: Any particular reason? |
| 17:26:17 | <geekosaur[m]> | not fond of the idea of splitting the slave pane as new windows are added |
| 17:26:45 | <geekosaur[m]> | just personal preference, not like I'm going to hack it into core or anything like that :smile: |
| 17:31:29 | <liskin> | mazte[m]: Tall is definitely meant to be resizable with just 2 windows in it |
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| 17:31:56 | <geekosaur> | I would not expect a difference, it's still got master and slave areas so should resize |
| 17:32:04 | <liskin> | ResizableTall and MouseResizableTall only add vertical resizing of slave windows, but moving the master pane divider should work in all these layouts |
| 17:33:28 | <geekosaur> | added them in a spare workspace so I can test |
| 17:34:20 | <mazte[m]> | liskin: In that case, the problem is definitely just how I've set it up. Using twopane, I get the same behavior |
| 17:39:35 | <geekosaur> | just worked fine here, so maybe pastebin your layout |
| 17:39:38 | <geekosaur> | @where paste |
| 17:39:38 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 17:40:45 | <geekosaur> | well, your whole config, not just the layout |
| 17:46:41 | <mazte[m]> | gotcha |
| 17:46:41 | <mazte[m]> | sec |
| 17:46:56 | <mazte[m]> | i should've cleaned up by config earlier, lmao |
| 17:48:46 | <mazte[m]> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/RyGvzzaT |
| 17:50:07 | <mazte[m]> | feel free to suggest/correct anything, btw. I'm more than open to criticism |
| 17:50:19 | <mazte[m]> | need to clean up some of it, to say the least |
| 17:53:52 | <geekosaur> | I've certainly seen worse configs |
| 17:55:16 | <geekosaur> | this has me wondering if gaps or spacing is messing with messages, although one would expect them to always do so |
| 17:56:54 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: ill take this as a win, lmao |
| 17:57:40 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: there's nothing immediately obvious that would make it behave like that? I thought i might've just missed something, tbh |
| 17:59:42 | <geekosaur> | nope, the standard bindings are still in place and they send messages to the layout, and nothing obvious is interfering with them unless it's a bug in gaps or spacing |
| 18:00:08 | <geekosaur> | like, you don't have a messageControl in there that might be doing a bogus rerouting |
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| 18:01:46 | <mazte[m]> | for reference, im on 0.17.1 (NixOS), albeit this behavior is the same on arch linux and void |
| 18:08:20 | <geekosaur> | hm. is it still broken if you remove the spacing stuff? |
| 18:08:56 | <geekosaur> | I just popped the source to Spacing and it does some weird stuff. it's not supposed to affect this but there might be an off by one… |
| 18:10:39 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: unfortunately |
| 18:11:40 | <geekosaur> | still broken? I'm not sure that's a bad thing, since it saves us trying to figure out how to fix some downright weird stuff in the implementation of the LayoutModifier |
| 18:13:10 | <mazte[m]> | additionally, even with spacing, it seems that it is trying to resize when i use the binds. What exactly do i mean by this? Well, the window borders flicker whenever any of them are resized; this happens when i try to resize with two windows, albeit none of them actually resize |
| 18:13:46 | <mazte[m]> | * two windows also, albeit |
| 18:15:25 | <geekosaur> | mm, that's the kind of behavior I was half expecting from Spacing |
| 18:15:51 | <geekosaur> | Gaps checks out, only cares about its own messages and the rest get passed through |
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| 18:19:55 | <mazte[m]> | Perhaps it would also help to mention that this behavior was present for me with a very similar config on 0.15 |
| 18:20:03 | <geekosaur> | hm |
| 18:22:25 | <geekosaur> | wondering if you can test that with older versions and see when it was introduced. I expect the oldest version would be the first one where `spacing` appeared, since `gaps` is ancient (it was how we reserved space for docks initially) |
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| 18:30:48 | <mazte[m]> | <geekosaur> "wondering if you can test that..." <- test this behavior with gaps and spacing present in a version older than 0.15.0? |
| 18:31:16 | <geekosaur> | yeh |
| 18:31:34 | <geekosaur> | just to see if we can nail it down that way |
| 18:31:42 | <mazte[m]> | also, to avoid any misunderstanding, this is what i mean by two windows (i know it's practically obvious, but i want to make sure 100%) |
| 18:31:48 | <geekosaur> | unfortunately I can't tell when Spacing was added |
| 18:31:56 | mazte[m] | uploaded an image: (786KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/ujiTbtroJFjcXvNqEXhbFPJK/2023-02-24_10%3A29%3A14.png > |
| 18:32:20 | <geekosaur> | I see the rewrite in 0.14 but the changelog goes back to 0.12 and then jumps to 0.9 |
| 18:32:48 | <geekosaur> | yeh, that was what I figured you meant |
| 18:32:55 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: i could perhaps set up a nix shell tomorrow to test this |
| 18:33:28 | <geekosaur> | it would be very interesting to see if the 0.14 Spacing rewrite affects it |
| 18:36:18 | <mazte[m]> | after removing both gaps and spacing, the behavior is the same |
| 18:36:18 | <mazte[m]> | sec |
| 18:36:45 | <geekosaur> | okay, this is becming really weird |
| 18:37:46 | <geekosaur> | there's just no reason why you'd be seeing it with what looks to be a very simple config after removal of those two in particular, but I don't see it with a fairly complex config including putting it on a distinct workspace |
| 18:38:10 | <mazte[m]> | mazte[m]: Just rebooted and recompiled too — same stuff |
| 18:39:34 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: I was about to say that I don't think there's anything particularly fancy in there that would mess with that intended functionality |
| 18:40:46 | <mazte[m]> | Or so it seems, anyway. There's clearly something, but the more I look, the more confused I become |
| 18:52:01 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I'm completely lost, especially if TwoPane works since they use the same master/slave division code, the only difference is TwoPane doesn't further divide the slave pane |
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| 19:09:10 | <mazte[m]> | just tried TwoPane with no gaps or spacing |
| 19:09:13 | <mazte[m]> | same thing |
| 19:09:42 | <geekosaur> | oh, so TwoPane also fails? I thought you said it had succeeded earlier, apparently I misunderstood |
| 19:10:36 | <geekosaur> | that would make slightly more sense, although still not much |
| 19:13:08 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: the only case where it works is when a third window is added, for some reason |
| 19:13:36 | <mazte[m]> | for reference, it is the same config, but with the layout now being: |
| 19:13:37 | <mazte[m]> | `myLayouts = ( spiral (6/7) ||| TwoPane (3/100) (1/2) ) ||| noBorders Full` |
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| 19:24:33 | <geekosaur> | ready for this? your config (but not mine) reproduces here but the changes actually take place; they just aren't drawn until the layout is otherwise refreshed |
| 19:25:22 | <geekosaur> | try pressing mod-n afterward |
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| 19:28:20 | <kora9> | I'm using scratchpads to keep a number of applications open "in the background" (so I can call them up with key sequences and then hide them again) as an alternative to those applications systray functionality. However, the issue I'm having is that the applications seem to consume a lot more resources when open that way, compared to being 'minimized to tray'. I imagine there's no way around that is |
| 19:28:22 | <kora9> | there? Since those applications probably have their own logic for "sleeping in the tray"? |
| 19:28:34 | <geekosaur> | this is starting to sound like a bug in PureX somehow |
| 19:28:45 | <liskin> | I think I know |
| 19:29:04 | <liskin> | There's a Mirror tiled with nmaster = 2. |
| 19:29:17 | <geekosaur> | kora9, that would be my guess |
| 19:29:23 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: bruh |
| 19:29:23 | <mazte[m]> | lmfao |
| 19:29:23 | <mazte[m]> | that works now |
| 19:29:33 | <mazte[m]> | however, it only works for TwoPane |
| 19:29:33 | <liskin> | So it's like we're looking at 2 slave windows. You can't resize slaves in Tall |
| 19:29:48 | <kora9> | geekosaur: Yeah I figured, just thought I'd check to make sure. Is there an alternative way of doing what I'm trying to that's better? |
| 19:30:29 | <geekosaur> | not so far as I'm aware. possibly if we ever land the scratchpads change that properly EWMH-hides them |
| 19:30:44 | <kora9> | Oh that would be awesome |
| 19:30:55 | <liskin> | (they're both in the master side, those "slaves", but it's the non-resizable direction of the layout; you can only move the master split, not the individual windows heights - widths if Mirrored) |
| 19:31:50 | <geekosaur> | whoops, completely missed nmaster 😞 yes this is 100% expected |
| 19:32:17 | <geekosaur> | the divider is between master and slave panes, not windows within either pane |
| 19:33:00 | <geekosaur> | you may want to rethink that |
| 19:35:27 | <mazte[m]> | sec |
| 19:36:47 | <mazte[m]> | works now with both mirrored tiled and twopane |
| 19:36:52 | <mazte[m]> | tyvm |
| 19:37:02 | <mazte[m]> | doesn't work with spiral, however |
| 19:37:30 | <geekosaur> | something wrong there too? it doesn't have this pane setup and doesn't respond to the pane messages |
| 19:38:17 | <geekosaur> | and I think you're the first person I know of using it for real instead of just experimenting to see what kinds of layouts we can support; it's not really a very practical layout |
| 19:38:22 | <mazte[m]> | <liskin> "(they're both in the master side..." <- then, would changing nmaster to 1 make it so the master pane is resizable, as the second spawned window would no longer also be considered part of master? |
| 19:38:59 | <liskin> | Yes but it's look very different |
| 19:39:18 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: lmao |
| 19:39:19 | <mazte[m]> | spiral? |
| 19:40:17 | <mazte[m]> | i use it mostly because it's aesthetically pleasing as a regular layout, not much for practicality |
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| 19:43:36 | <geekosaur> | oh wow, I thought that was a different layout. it's more like BSP |
| 19:44:13 | <geekosaur> | and it does respond to the pane messages because it's still paned |
| 19:44:51 | <geekosaur> | so this one may be a bug in Spiral, since I can reproduce it needing a mod-n after making changes |
| 19:45:03 | <geekosaur> | meaning it's missing a refresh somewhere |
| 19:48:13 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: It properly resizes after mod-n for you? |
| 19:48:24 | <mazte[m]> | It doesn't do that for me |
| 19:48:26 | <geekosaur> | with two windows, yes |
| 19:49:01 | <geekosaur> | oh, wait, I didn't actually mod-n. what I did was open a third window and the pane divider moved to where it was supposed to be |
| 19:49:20 | <geekosaur> | if mod-n doesn't fix that then it's more than just a missing refresh, I think |
| 19:50:20 | <mazte[m]> | geekosaur: So it goes back to 1/2 ea after killing the third window after all? |
| 19:50:46 | <mazte[m]> | That's basically what happens with spiral on my config |
| 19:50:56 | <mazte[m]> | Just answered my own question, nvm |
| 19:51:23 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 19:51:44 | <geekosaur> | definitely a logic bug with Spiral and two windows. please make a bug report |
| 19:52:04 | <geekosaur> | https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad-contrib/issues/new |
| 19:55:58 | <mazte[m]> | Will do when I'm home |
| 19:57:42 | <mazte[m]> | Tyvm for all the help, BTW |
| 20:03:53 | <kora9> | Why are haskell libraries so large? (installing taffybar and amazed at the sheer number of dependencies) |
| 20:07:20 | <mazte[m]> | kora9: give xmobar a try, if that's a concern |
| 20:10:02 | <geekosaur> | gi is broken into at least a dozen dependencies, dbus sucks in lens and thereby a large chunk of the kmettiverse |
| 20:10:46 | <kora9> | mazte[m]: I use xmobar now, and it's not a problem, I was just curious why haskell libraries are so large (I noticed that xmonad is tiny, but ghc etc is huge). Everything runs super fast and is very stable which is all that matters to me |
| 20:11:18 | <mazte[m]> | ah, gotcha |
| 20:16:40 | <geekosaur> | ghc is huge because it's a complex compiler |
| 20:17:15 | <geekosaur> | lens is huge because it provides lenses for a whole lot of stuff out of the box, which requires pulling all those things in as dependencies |
| 20:18:04 | <geekosaur> | conduit is huge for similar reasons, there are a bunch of provided conduits iirc which brings in their dependencies |
| 20:18:50 | <kora9> | It appears haskell binaries are statically linked as well? |
| 20:19:34 | <geekosaur> | to other haskell libraries, yes |
| 20:20:12 | <geekosaur> | you can use -dynamic to override this, but you don't gain a whole lot because you still have to relink on dependency updates due to cross-module linking and sucj |
| 20:20:15 | <geekosaur> | *such |
| 20:20:29 | <kora9> | Cool, thanks for explaining :) |
| 20:20:49 | <geekosaur> | er, cross-module inlining |
| 20:20:57 | <kora9> | One thing that's been very surprising to me is how stable the haskell applications I've tried so far are. In particular xmonad which has never crashed on me |
| 20:21:03 | <kora9> | Fast too |
| 20:21:06 | <geekosaur> | what's actually exposed from a module is much more than you declare and can cause surprises |
| 20:21:32 | <geekosaur> | we do our best 🙂 |
| 20:22:20 | <kora9> | Thanks :) I hope that in a few years I'll be competent at configuring it, lol -- but I've got things working fairly well now at least (borrowing snippets here and there and modifying them, starting to understand more and more) |
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| 23:17:28 | <wuqs> | can i create a shortcut for using Gimp screenshot function? |
| 23:21:05 | <geekosaur> | not readily. although it looks like it already has one, if it's open/focused? (PrtSc) |
| 23:23:19 | <wuqs> | yes, but i need to focus on it, then get my shot |
| 23:23:50 | <geekosaur> | you can spawn it but you can't tell when it's ready for you to paste a key to it |
| 23:26:24 | <geekosaur> | I also don't know if it'll accept a pasted key when not focused (or indeed if it'll accept it at all; X11 marks synthetic events as such and some programs ignore them) |
| 23:27:36 | <wuqs> | ok, i am lost... but actually i found something useful! |
| 23:27:44 | <wuqs> | ("<Print>", spawn "gimp --batch '(plug-in-screenshot RUN-INTERACTIVE FALSE 0 0 0 0 0)'" |
| 23:27:55 | <geekosaur> | and it would probably be easier to do it by spawning xdotool rather than trying to do it directly: we have some stuff to paste keys but it expects printables, not xK_Print |
| 23:27:56 | <wuqs> | did the job for me on additionalKeysP` |
| 23:28:12 | <geekosaur> | huh, okay |
| 23:28:34 | <geekosaur> | might conceivably need to toss in an `unGrab` to avoid a possible race condition |
| 23:29:14 | <geekosaur> | but yes, someting like that is preferable to trying to manufacture keystrokes |
| 23:29:30 | <geekosaur> | xmonad is a window manager, not the X server |
| 23:30:26 | <wuqs> | i was hoping there was something simple that i am missing |
| 23:30:52 | <wuqs> | like someone pointed me about the power-off button... |
| 23:31:08 | <wuqs> | but actually that commad 'RUN-INTERACTIVE...' is pretty sweet |
| 23:31:51 | <geekosaur> | this, sadly, is not simple unless you can use a command like that |
| 23:32:12 | <geekosaur> | identifying a window and sending synthetic events to it is ugly and annoying |
| 23:32:17 | <geekosaur> | and may not work |
All times are in UTC on 2023-02-24.