Logs on 2024-09-21 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 09:44:37 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> hi, everyone, I use linux for two years, and i want to try my first Windows manager.My friends suggest me the xmonad ，But i can't Haskell programming |
| 09:44:39 | <haskellbridge> | I'm studying it now.Before use Xmonad |
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| 11:00:13 | <yaslam> | yoyos12138: you do not need to know haskell programming to use xmonad |
| 11:00:47 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> why？ |
| 11:00:55 | <yaslam> | i started using xmonad without any knowledge of haskell, just learnt the default keybinds and learnt a few things and now I have my own configuration |
| 11:01:35 | <yaslam> | yoyos12138: it is easy to configure it, you just have to learn the syntax which is all in the documentation but it is not hard |
| 11:02:15 | <yaslam> | you should first start by learning the keybinds |
| 11:05:07 | <yaslam> | yoyos12138: default keybinds cheatsheet, learn these: https://xmonad.org/images/cheat/xmbindings.png |
| 11:06:25 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> Thank you （） |
| 11:06:38 | <yaslam> | np |
| 11:07:22 | <geekosaur> | the TUTORIAL will take you through building up a config from scratch https://xmonad.org/TUTORIAL.html |
| 11:07:38 | <geekosaur> | don't worry about the Haskell, it tells you what to do |
| 11:08:02 | <geekosaur> | later you can look at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.18.1/docs/XMonad-Doc-Configuring.html |
| 11:08:57 | <geekosaur> | and contribs show you what you need to add to use them. you'll only really need to know Haskell if you decide to start adding your own features and maybe making contribs out of them |
| 11:09:15 | <geekosaur> | (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.18.1/docs/XMonad-Doc-Extending.html) |
| 11:09:37 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> Actually when i decided to choose one Windows manager, i have two choice.The emacs Windows manager or the xmonad |
| 11:09:38 | <haskellbridge> | Both of them were used the functional programming to config，My cousin he very like haskell And Record to me.to use the application build with haskell |
| 11:10:11 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> Stupid voice input.（） |
| 11:10:12 | <geekosaur> | I wouldn't use a window manager written in elisp. but you could use sawfish instead |
| 11:10:15 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> recommend |
| 11:10:40 | <geekosaur> | (emacs is pretty broken for things that need asynchronous event handling) |
| 11:10:55 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> （） |
| 11:12:49 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> It seems that it used elisp, but not use emacs？ |
| 11:13:12 | <geekosaur> | if it's using elisp, it's running emacs somehow, possibly in batch mode |
| 11:13:27 | <geekosaur> | but it'll still do poorly because emacs simply isn't designed for such usage |
| 11:13:44 | <geekosaur> | sawfish is written, configured, and extended in a dialect of Scheme |
| 11:14:04 | <geekosaur> | and works very well, or at least did when I used it before switching to xmonad |
| 11:14:38 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> scheme（My friend tell me this language is not the lisp😂😂） |
| 11:14:47 | <geekosaur> | mm, not a good sign, the site's on a (broken) domain park page now 😞 |
| 11:15:01 | <geekosaur> | elisp is a very poor lisp |
| 11:15:28 | <geekosaur> | even the FSF knows it, they've been working on a redesigned emacs with multithreading and based on Guile |
| 11:15:51 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> Ii did continue watch xmonad doc |
| 11:16:23 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> Thank you for your answer. |
| 11:20:16 | <geekosaur> | ah it moved here https://sawfish.tuxfamily.org/ |
| 11:20:54 | <geekosaur> | rep is a fairly nice scheme with built-in X11 primitives |
| 11:21:43 | <geekosaur> | hm, apparently they stopped calling it a scheme, they just claim it's a lisp now |
| 11:22:34 | <geekosaur> | suppose they got yelled at because it's not R5RS much less R7RS |
| 11:43:05 | <geekosaur> | sadly, it looks pretty dead. last update 2011 aside from a "current versions" post in 2017 |
| 11:43:22 | <geekosaur> | can't even find the rep contribs so I can see if my contribs are still in it 😞 |
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| 21:03:21 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> . |
| 21:20:20 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> dmenu is great |
| 21:42:17 | <liskin> | rofi is greater (unless you value super minimalistic look and super lightweight implementation) |
| 21:42:31 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> ) |
| 22:05:30 | <haskellbridge> | <yoyos12138> I have a question.Did the haskell had Wayland composer. |
| 22:18:24 | <geekosaur> | not yet |
| 22:21:18 | <L29Ah> | waymonad is |
| 22:21:30 | <L29Ah> | but xmonad is much better |
| 22:24:09 | <geekosaur> | https://discourse.haskell.org/t/xmonad-for-wayland-call-for-help/7812 https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-wlroots-bindings/8426 |
| 22:25:46 | L29Ah | just waits until wayland bitrots away |
| 22:27:03 | <geekosaur> | sadly, I think that's not going to happen, at least not entirely. X11 has actual problems, and any replacement that fixes them is going to look more like Wayland than like the X Window System |
| 22:27:24 | <geekosaur> | including any attempt to fix them within X |
| 22:27:36 | <geekosaur> | it needs to be completely re-architected |
| 22:38:59 | <L29Ah> | what problems? is there a good article i could read? |
| 22:39:34 | <L29Ah> | i'm not convinced wayland architecture is stellar either, with its callback buffer requesting stuff |
| 22:40:32 | <L29Ah> | and it doesn't matter much what interface you use if you mostly say "place my opengl/vulkan toybox here and get away", i think |
| 22:41:28 | <geekosaur> | the fundamental problem is that X is fundamentally designed with a Screen architecture which (a) can have its own resolution (b) _always_ has its own video memory, which cannot be shared with other Screens |
| 22:43:30 | <geekosaur> | you can work around the video memory issue with the Xinerama hack, but now you can't have different resolutions on each "screen" because that would mean different places on the root window having different resolutions, which X doesn't support (and in particular can't be wedged into X video drivers) |
| 22:43:37 | <L29Ah> | the Screen problem was mostly kludged away by xinerama-xrandr, i don't see how it's relevant today |
| 22:44:04 | <geekosaur> | I see it right now |
| 22:44:27 | <L29Ah> | and you can have different resolutions on each "screen", and you can fetch these from applications, that's exactly what xinerama, as a protocol, does |
| 22:44:38 | <geekosaur> | I have two monitors, the resolution is set by the default monitor, the resolution displayed on the external monitor is all jacked up and this can't be fixed |
| 22:45:17 | <L29Ah> | i don't understand what do you call "the resolution displayed on the external monitor is all jacked up" |
| 22:45:52 | <geekosaur> | and you can't tell if I take a screenshot because X thinks it's fine |
| 22:45:59 | <L29Ah> | if you mean applications not adjusting their sizes to the "screen" they're on, that's the application-side problem, as in "no one cares enough to ask X what's the DPI of the "screen" they sit on" |
| 22:46:12 | <geekosaur> | it actually looks reasonable in the screenshot. It's completely wrong on screen |
| 22:46:19 | <geekosaur> | no, this is not size |
| 22:46:40 | <L29Ah> | i'm out of guesses then |
| 22:46:42 | <geekosaur> | this is "fonts are way too big":. This is "the avatars in my Matrix window overlap each other". |
| 22:46:50 | <L29Ah> | yes, font size, etc |
| 22:47:00 | <geekosaur> | and you do not consider this an issue? |
| 22:47:06 | <L29Ah> | application thinks the size is of a Screen, while it should fetch the "screen" info instead |
| 22:47:12 | <L29Ah> | this is an issue, but not X-side |
| 22:47:33 | <L29Ah> | it's obsolete pre-Xinerama applications |
| 22:48:10 | <geekosaur> | nope |
| 22:48:19 | <L29Ah> | ? |
| 22:48:26 | <geekosaur> | if every application ever has to be rewritten then it's not fixed |
| 22:48:39 | <L29Ah> | every application ever has to be rewritten for wayland, duh |
| 22:48:52 | <L29Ah> | i'm not sure why some devs decided it's quicker to rewrite everything from scratch instead of patching up major toolkits to be xinerama-aware |
| 22:49:15 | <geekosaur> | which is why I started this with [21 22:27:02] <geekosaur> sadly, I think that's not going to happen, at least not entirely. X11 has actual problems, and any replacement that fixes them is going to look more like Wayland than like the X Window System |
| 22:49:15 | <geekosaur> | [21 22:27:24] <geekosaur> including any attempt to fix them within X |
| 22:49:54 | <L29Ah> | i don't see how this is relevant: xinerama doesn't look like wayland, and it's not a problem that needs fixing within X |
| 22:50:24 | <geekosaur> | pretty much every other X11 user sees it, though |
| 22:50:32 | <geekosaur> | perhaps this should suggest something? |
| 22:50:44 | <L29Ah> | did you make a poll or smth? |
| 22:51:25 | <L29Ah> | this suggests you don't have much to say if you resorted to argumentum ad populum |
| 22:51:42 | <geekosaur> | given that you've made up your mind, would you believe it if I did? |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-09-21.