Logs on 2025-11-07 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 16:35:16 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Any update on Xmonad for Wayland? I read the threads on Haskell discord but I haven't heard of any major milestones being achieved. |
| 16:35:56 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> I'm on Ubuntu 22.04. I can stay on it for up to 32.04 so in 2032, I'll need to either leave it on 22.04 or get another distro that would still support X11 |
| 16:36:26 | <geekosaur> | both threads seem to have died, so we're back to square one |
| 16:36:30 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> I also manage this patch for KDE https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/174 |
| 16:36:37 | <geekosaur> | and with a hint that this nut is harder to crack than we'd hoped |
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| 16:36:48 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> So I'll need to patch plasma as well for it. |
| 16:37:07 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Then we'll just need to figure out a way to keep X11 alive! |
| 16:37:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> https://x11libre.net/ I found this while researching |
| 16:38:40 | <geekosaur> | yes, but if you scan back in here you'll find some, uh, potential issues |
| 16:38:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> geekosaur: what's your distro? |
| 16:40:04 | <geekosaur> | ubuntu, I'm on 25.04 and resisting moving to 25.10 because gnome loses x11 support there and I may potentially lose google drive support as a result |
| 16:40:20 | <geekosaur> | (mate defers to gnome for authentication for it) |
| 16:40:51 | <geekosaur> | considering moving to debian stable on the theory they'll hold on to x11 a bit longer |
| 16:41:19 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Sigh. I don't like this situation at all. |
| 16:42:09 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> I use KDE and KDE provides on Kubuntu, X11 session, but not by default, on 25.10 and assumingly next year on 26.04 |
| 16:43:20 | <geekosaur> | right, that's why I'm not upgrading to it |
| 16:44:45 | <geekosaur> | and upgrading to a non-LTS version of ubuntu turns out to have been a major mistake; I should have stuck with the LTS. but at the time I don't think we knew the rug was going to be pulled so quickly |
| 16:45:13 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> You can always reinstall with 24.04 LTS. Is that an option for you? |
| 16:45:49 | <geekosaur> | yes, but if I have to reinstall anyway, I figure I might want to reinstall to something more likely to retain X11 support |
| 16:46:08 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> That's also what I'm thinking. |
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| 16:48:31 | <geekosaur> | (and not only for xmonad; there are still a number of things Wayland doesn't handle) |
| 16:49:13 | <geekosaur> | oh, if you checked backscroll liskin mentioned a turbocharged X11-under-wayland that allows X11 window managers to work |
| 16:49:37 | <geekosaur> | with the potential downside of having to hack things up to not autostart wayland versions of e.g. notification daemons |
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| 16:52:04 | <geekosaur> | since ubuntu gives me a wayland session (that I'm not logged into) I may test liskin's thing at some point |
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| 16:54:39 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch05.html currently reading up on this |
| 16:57:07 | <geekosaur> | oh, the bigger problem is mroe and more things are going to remove X11 support (gnome already has, which is why ubuntu 25.10 is problematic for me because that version lands then) |
| 16:58:12 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Hopefully by then some new distros that support X11 will come out. Who knows. |
| 16:58:37 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> But yeah, applications lacking X11 support is going to cause a problem |
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| 17:18:03 | <OpenSource> | geekosaur, It's me Nexilva from Matrix. Have you triex Xwayland or wayland-x11 to run Xmonad? Is that a possibility? |
| 17:20:36 | <geekosaur> | Xwayland won't fly, I'm pretty sure. wayland-x11 is the one liskin mentioned that should be able to do it; as I said, I want to test it at some point |
| 17:28:40 | <geekosaur> | btw you don't need to be on the irc side of the bridge |
| 17:29:32 | <geekosaur> | I'm on both sides because I run the bridge (here and for a number of other Haskell-related channels/rooms) and I want to be able to monitor easily. but I'm a chanop irc-side so I mostly stick to this side |
| 17:32:24 | <OpenSource> | Np. I had to get on IRC to do some research on this matter. I'm asking arch and debian folks about x11 phasing out |
| 17:32:41 | <OpenSource> | I figured I'll join xmonad channel here as well instead of switching windows |
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| 18:07:10 | <liskin> | wayback is the one I mentioned |
| 18:07:18 | <liskin> | I believe it uses Xwayland under the hood |
| 18:09:44 | <liskin> | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayback/wayback |
| 18:10:05 | <liskin> | "It is essentially |
| 18:10:07 | <liskin> | a stub compositor which provides just enough Wayland capabilities to host |
| 18:10:09 | <liskin> | a rootful Xwayland server." |
| 18:10:41 | <liskin> | So yeah Xwayland plus wlroots plus a tiny little bit of glue |
| 18:13:59 | <liskin> | Not even exaggerating - it's 3 common header/c files and 3 binaries c files. Quite possibly less code than early xmonad core |
| 18:14:35 | <liskin> | Maybe I should give it a try. Compton/picom gives me headaches |
| 18:23:07 | <geekosaur> | I've found the picom in 25.04 pretty decent |
| 18:23:14 | <geekosaur> | but my head isn't yours |
| 18:23:44 | <geekosaur> | (different things give me headaches. If I'm lucky. More likely my brain just overloads and starts dropping stuff on the floor) |
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| 22:06:23 | <liskin> | I meant it metaphorically |
| 22:07:27 | <liskin> | Took years for picom to get to a point where it's not visibly slower than compton and also doesn't flicker weirdly |
| 22:08:37 | <liskin> | And somewhere in those years it started requiring GL features that aren't available in virgl (that's the qemu thing), so I still can't use it on all my machines |
| 22:42:01 | <geekosaur> | ah, right. I don't even bother with compositing in virtualization, IME it always drags the system to a crawl and usually looks lousy |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-11-07.