Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2026-04-09 17:45:08 | <danz90119> | then the two terms are not equivalent... |
| 2026-04-09 17:45:25 | <monochrom> | Not even at the same level of abstraction! |
| 2026-04-09 17:45:52 | <danz90119> | meh |
| 2026-04-09 17:46:33 | <monochrom> | Non-strict just says: const 5 undefined = 5, I don't care how you pull it off. Evaluation order says how to pull it off. |
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| 2026-04-09 17:47:02 | <monochrom> | i.e., non-strict is denotational, evaluation order is operational. |
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| 2026-04-09 17:47:27 | <monochrom> | Corollary: "strict vs lazy" is comparing apples with cells. |
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| 2026-04-09 18:43:13 | <EvanR> | call by whatever was always annoying to me for how they don't cleanly distinguish themselves with respect to each other. They were invented at different points in history without an overarching framework. But now they have some kind of old timey feel. Quaint, pastoral xD |
| 2026-04-09 18:44:11 | <monochrom> | They have the common framework of "call by ____" >:) |
| 2026-04-09 18:44:57 | <monochrom> | Did you hear of the Niklaus Wirth joke? :) |
| 2026-04-09 18:46:28 | <gentauro> | whats the name of this operatos -> `>:)`? I think I have seen it in C# :o |
| 2026-04-09 18:46:53 | <monochrom> | It may not be a true story but here it goes. "Europe prefers call by name, so they call me <Swiss pronounciation>. America prefers call by value, so they call me Nickle's Worth." |
| 2026-04-09 18:47:28 | <monochrom> | err s/Nickle/Nickel/ |
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| 2026-04-09 18:49:50 | <EvanR> | lol |
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| 2026-04-09 18:52:53 | <tomsmeding> | lol |
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| 2026-04-09 19:05:48 | <monochrom> | Source: https://youtu.be/SVYBJlCmRxE?si=xnWBiK-4i8tNUkbC (Computerphile channel) |
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| 2026-04-09 19:08:17 | <EvanR> | call by value, call by reference, call by name, call by need, call by push-value (??) |
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| 2026-04-09 19:09:00 | <monochrom> | Yeah the newest one is push-value. I still have to read about it. |
| 2026-04-09 19:13:17 | <tomsmeding> | isn't CBPV not really an evaluation strategy but more of an IR design |
| 2026-04-09 19:13:29 | <tomsmeding> | (I also still have to properly read about CBPV) |
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| 2026-04-09 19:14:33 | <EvanR> | are any of these evaluation strategies other than call by need |
| 2026-04-09 19:14:53 | <monochrom> | call by value and call by name are. |
| 2026-04-09 19:14:53 | <tomsmeding> | call by value is |
| 2026-04-09 19:15:25 | <EvanR> | you claim call by value is synonymous with eager evaluation |
| 2026-04-09 19:16:13 | <EvanR> | that might explain a lot of confusing expositions I've seen |
| 2026-04-09 19:16:41 | <tomsmeding> | those things mean the same to me, in any case |
| 2026-04-09 19:16:42 | <monochrom> | Sometimes I say "pass by reference, pass by value" when it's only about cloning the argument vs passing an address. |
| 2026-04-09 19:16:43 | <EvanR> | C and Java both being presented as call by value only, and not just call by value sometimes |
| 2026-04-09 19:17:05 | <tomsmeding> | C is definitely call by value |
| 2026-04-09 19:17:19 | <tomsmeding> | C++ has references which get you pass-by-reference |
| 2026-04-09 19:17:26 | <tomsmeding> | but still eager evaluation |
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