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2020-09-20 20:16:49 <kindaro> Is there a nice library for logging messages in IO to standard output/error?
2020-09-20 20:17:18 <kindaro> Like a fancy `putStrLn`, yes.
2020-09-20 20:17:41 <merijn> @hackage monad-logger
2020-09-20 20:17:41 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-logger
2020-09-20 20:17:47 <Uniaika> co-log exists too
2020-09-20 20:17:47 <merijn> And a billion others :p
2020-09-20 20:17:50 <[exa]> logging?
2020-09-20 20:17:58 <[exa]> ^^ actual package name
2020-09-20 20:18:07 × johnyb quits (~johnyb@83.24.161.211.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-09-20 20:18:22 <kindaro> No, these are not in IO, they have their own transformer or something.
2020-09-20 20:18:37 <merijn> What I like about monad-logger is that you can start out lazy just using LoggingT and then you can easily later replace it and implement your own stuff
2020-09-20 20:18:40 <merijn> eh
2020-09-20 20:18:48 <merijn> Well, then "hPutStrLn"? :p
2020-09-20 20:19:13 <[exa]> kindaro: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/logging even says "in IO"
2020-09-20 20:19:14 <ddellacosta> kindaro: logging that [exa] mentioned is just in IO I thought
2020-09-20 20:19:22 <ddellacosta> lol jinx
2020-09-20 20:19:30 <[exa]> :]
2020-09-20 20:19:30 <kindaro> I see `logging` has `log :: Text -> IO ()` — that I like.
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2020-09-20 20:25:18 <kindaro> By the way, I see `logging` is using the idiom of `logLevel = unsafePerformIO $ newIORef LevelDebug` for initializing an implicit global state. I know that `random` recently removed a similar feature. Has there been research that shows definitely that such use of `unsafePerformIO` is either safe or unsafe?
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2020-09-20 20:26:59 <kindaro> Particularly, see this explanation: https://github.com/haskell/random/issues/57#issuecomment-649473745
2020-09-20 20:27:20 <kindaro> I am divided on this technique since then — should I like or dislike it?
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2020-09-20 20:29:12 <[exa]> kindaro: unsafePerformIO is often quite practical, like for tracing
2020-09-20 20:29:45 → borne joins (~fritjof@200116b86490460022497ba62715fb72.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-09-20 20:29:47 <Cale> I dislike it just because it means that only one usage is possible. It's fine to use mutable stuff, but it would make more sense to have a little bundle of mutable state containing a handle for where the log message was going, together with the current log level perhaps
2020-09-20 20:30:06 <kindaro> Not sure I follow.
2020-09-20 20:30:21 <Cale> I guess the assumption here is that the log is only going to stderr
2020-09-20 20:30:26 × polyphem quits (~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-20 20:30:37 <Cale> But say multiple libraries decide to use this log library
2020-09-20 20:30:53 <Cale> Then they might interfere with each other when it comes to setting their log level
2020-09-20 20:30:56 johnyb is now known as JonathanB
2020-09-20 20:31:10 JonathanB is now known as JonatanB
2020-09-20 20:31:18 <Cale> One library can't have a different log level than the other, even if it might appear that way, because some initialisation function takes a log level
2020-09-20 20:31:22 <Cale> (and sets it)
2020-09-20 20:31:48 <Cale> Just because they accidentally both used logging
2020-09-20 20:32:08 <c_wraith> I'd probably argue libraries should never set the log level anyway, but that's beside the point a bit. With the point being that there are ways to design it that don't involve unsafePerformIO
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2020-09-20 20:33:12 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-20 20:33:21 <Cale> Well, they might set the log level according to what the user of the library requests
2020-09-20 20:33:41 <Cale> But yeah, I suppose if you're using 'logging', you don't really do that
2020-09-20 20:34:06 <Cale> because it doesn't make sense, as you can't really have a distinct logging level from any other library which is using it
2020-09-20 20:34:09 JonatanB is now known as jonatanb
2020-09-20 20:36:42 <jonatanb> \nick jobo
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