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2020-09-19 01:43:54 <monochrom> Or rather:
2020-09-19 01:44:32 <monochrom> If you intend function definition, the grammar doesn't anticipate parenthesizing such as "(f x) = x+1"
2020-09-19 01:45:26 <boxscape> % f :: a -> b -> a; (f a) b = a
2020-09-19 01:45:26 <yahb> boxscape:
2020-09-19 01:45:31 <monochrom> BUT! The other kind of definitions is "pattern = expr". In this case, the pattern can have outermost parentheses, "(inner pattern) = expr" because all patterns allow redundant parentheses.
2020-09-19 01:45:51 <boxscape> oh, yeah, I suppose that does make sense
2020-09-19 01:46:01 <boxscape> thanks
2020-09-19 01:46:02 <monochrom> This pushes the parser to look at "(a +++ b) = ..." and go "ah, you have a pattern on the LHS".
2020-09-19 01:46:07 <boxscape> right
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2020-09-19 01:59:20 <ski> yea, i've noticed this discrepance before
2020-09-19 02:00:57 × nineonine quits (~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-19 02:01:28 <ski> occasionally, i've wanted to do something like `( x +++ Foo) = ...', in order to align `x' with something on another line
2020-09-19 02:01:53 <monochrom> That's clever
2020-09-19 02:02:11 <monochrom> Use explicit { ; } >:)
2020-09-19 02:02:38 <ski> this was directly under `module', as i recall it
2020-09-19 02:05:45 <monochrom> module M where {
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2020-09-19 02:12:47 <eflister> i need an accumulating traverse for Data.Map.
2020-09-19 02:12:55 lagothrix is now known as Guest51064
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2020-09-19 02:15:56 <ski> eflister : use `StateT' ?
2020-09-19 02:16:19 → TooDifficult joins (~TooDiffic@139.59.59.230)
2020-09-19 02:18:18 <eflister> ski: makes sense. any idea why it's not included in the library? makes me suspect i'm doing something wrong :)
2020-09-19 02:18:44 <ski> not included in which library ?
2020-09-19 02:18:57 hackage arch-hs 0.0.0.0 - A program generating PKGBUILD for hackage packages. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arch-hs-0.0.0.0 (berberman)
2020-09-19 02:18:58 <eflister> Data.Map :)
2020-09-19 02:19:18 <ski> (also, you said you were going to make a paste before, but you never showed any paste link)
2020-09-19 02:20:14 <eflister> heh, good memory - i later posted that i found a missing $ after lunch :)
2020-09-19 02:20:47 <ski> eflister : well, it has `instance Traversable (Map k)'. what more do you need, than that, and `instance Monad m => Applicative (StateT s m)' ?
2020-09-19 02:20:52 × mozzarella quits (~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-19 02:23:00 <ski> @type (runStateT .) . (. (id :: M.Map k v -> M.Map k v)) . traverse . (StateT .)
2020-09-19 02:23:00 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-19 02:23:02 <lambdabot> Monad m => (v -> s -> m (b, s)) -> M.Map k v -> s -> m (M.Map k b, s)
2020-09-19 02:23:09 <ski> you wanted something like that ?
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2020-09-19 02:27:23 × miklcct quits (quasselcor@2001:19f0:7001:5ad:5400:2ff:feb6:50d7) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-09-19 02:27:54 <eflister> that does look good, but more sophisticated than i usually get. :) since they have mapAccum and traverse i was hoping they'd baked in the combination...
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2020-09-19 02:29:38 <booppoob> hi, do you think i should learn haskell if i have absolutely no maths background? does one need one to be able to have an easier time?
2020-09-19 02:29:49 <booppoob> should I instead spend some time with maths before coming to it?
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2020-09-19 02:32:24 <boxscape> You do not need a maths background to learn haskell
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2020-09-19 02:33:32 <ski> eflister : just write something like `(`runState` initialAcc) (traverse (\val -> StateT (\acc -> do ...; return (newVal,newAcc))) myMap)'
2020-09-19 02:34:20 <ski> (er, s/runState/runStateT/)
2020-09-19 02:34:41 ← vnogueira parts (~vnogueira@unaffiliated/vnogueira) ()
2020-09-19 02:34:53 <ski> (`mapAccumL' is just `traverse' on `State s')
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2020-09-19 02:34:57 <booppoob> ok, my friend(s) keep telling me only maths people do it. that's reassuring to hear.
2020-09-19 02:35:59 <boxscape> heh, it does tend to attract maths people. There are some nice relationships between some Haskell concepts and some maths concepts, but I doubt most people who have learned haskell even heard about those math concepts before.
2020-09-19 02:36:01 <ski> @where prerequisite
2020-09-19 02:36:01 <lambdabot> "Prerequisite for Learning Haskell" <http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/prerequisite.xhtml>
2020-09-19 02:36:06 <ski> booppoob : see ^
2020-09-19 02:36:44 <ski> that tells you what (little) math background is useful, for learning Haskell
2020-09-19 02:37:16 <dolio> I think people have taught Haskell to high school students. Possibly grade school.
2020-09-19 02:38:25 <boxscape> I wasn't taught it *in* high school but I did learn it while I was attending high school
2020-09-19 02:40:57 × Turmfalke quits (~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2020-09-19 02:42:18 <boxscape> hm I feel like that prerequisites page could benefit from some LaTeX, the ASCII math makes it look more difficult than it is
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2020-09-19 02:43:00 <ski> hm, not the other way around, then ?
2020-09-19 02:43:17 <boxscape> well, I'm not suggesting to show the LaTeX source, but the rendered result
2020-09-19 02:43:45 <boxscape> though you may have meant that
2020-09-19 02:43:53 <ski> yes
2020-09-19 02:44:19 ski looks at monochrom
2020-09-19 02:44:36 <monochrom> All LaTeX does in this case is merely italicize.
2020-09-19 02:44:40 <boxscape> I don't know, maybe - my impression would be that as long as you only use letters and numbers and not greek letters it shouldn't be any more menacing than ASCII math, but I could be wrong
2020-09-19 02:44:46 <ski> monochrom : and superscripts
2020-09-19 02:44:55 <boxscape> yeah I was thinking mostly of superscripts and asterisks
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2020-09-19 02:45:04 <boxscape> though then again
2020-09-19 02:45:18 <boxscape> I suppose the asterisks are a deliberate choice because juxtaposition is an ASCII feature
2020-09-19 02:46:55 <boxscape> and I admit it could be jarring once you get to the source code which presumably would be rendered without LaTeX
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2020-09-19 02:49:58 <booppoob> ok, i think i am done with the prerequisites, what would you suggest as a starting point to learn? which book should i begin with?
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2020-09-19 02:52:41 <boxscape> booppoob In terms of free resources, this seems to be a pretty good introduction https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html In terms of paid resources, there's haskellbook.com
2020-09-19 02:53:37 <sshine> LaTeX also provides nice combined glyphs for "fi" and so on.
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