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2020-09-19 17:44:43 → MaoZeDong_ joins (~yuri@2a00:1370:8135:91d4:415b:9b05:36f8:565c)
2020-09-19 17:44:45 <dolio> davean: Yeah, I know. It's more in the past I've seen people not really being coherent about this stuff.
2020-09-19 17:45:00 × Saten-san quits (~Saten-san@ip-81-11-153-236.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-19 17:45:23 <davean> dolio: I know 'machines' can solve the ordering issues easily (thats what I use seekable-machines for half the time), and I suspect you could with 'pipes' though I never have.
2020-09-19 17:45:52 <geekosaur> well, now you have the answer to why people talk about haskellers not being simple, at least :)
2020-09-19 17:45:58 hackage uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.5.0.0 - Examples of usage for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.5.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-09-19 17:45:59 <davean> dolio: you can pretty easily impliment an ARES machine :)
2020-09-19 17:46:06 monochrom perpetuates the myth that you need to understand category theory jokes to learn haskell
2020-09-19 17:46:07 <davean> I mean as easy as ARES is!
2020-09-19 17:46:35 <monochrom> Sorry, what's ARES?
2020-09-19 17:46:40 <dolio> I imagine you _can_ solve them with most libraries, but I don't expect 'oops, I wrote naive interleaved input/output processing and used it on a single file' to automatically work in most of them.
2020-09-19 17:47:34 <dolio> Like, passed the same file name twice.
2020-09-19 17:48:05 <davean> monochrom: sorry ARIES
2020-09-19 17:48:07 × cosimone quits (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6) (Quit: Quit.)
2020-09-19 17:48:37 <monochrom> Thanks, but I don't know ARIES either.
2020-09-19 17:48:50 <davean> Oh http://db.csail.mit.edu/madden/html/aries.pdf
2020-09-19 17:48:54 <davean> Its the thing DBs do
2020-09-19 17:48:54 <monochrom> thanks
2020-09-19 17:49:27 <monochrom> hahaha "exploiting semantics"
2020-09-19 17:52:06 × juuandyy quits (~juuandyy@90.166.144.65) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-19 17:53:50 → coot joins (~coot@37.30.55.202.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-09-19 17:54:31 × xff0x_ quits (~fox@2001:1a81:5373:6a00:7876:876c:565a:2fc6) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-19 17:54:38 <monochrom> OK, so "ACID" was already a thing in 1992, not a web bubble invention. I feel better now.
2020-09-19 17:54:58 <davean> Yes, I take it you know nothing about DBs at all?
2020-09-19 17:55:08 → xff0x_ joins (~fox@2001:1a81:5373:6a00:4c7a:e2f5:6d60:257d)
2020-09-19 17:55:08 <monochrom> I know nothing about DBs.
2020-09-19 17:55:18 <c_wraith> I expect ACID would date back to the 70s
2020-09-19 17:55:26 <davean> The web bubble *got rid of* ACID
2020-09-19 17:55:30 <davean> c_wraith: yah, it does
2020-09-19 17:55:39 <davean> ACID is one of the basic concepts of ... well computing really
2020-09-19 17:55:52 <davean> It does come from the DB world though.
2020-09-19 17:56:04 → acidjnk_new2 joins (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7365818803e8c849f4b43fc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-19 17:56:44 × geekosaur quits (42d52102@66.213.33.2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-09-19 17:56:49 <davean> as an acronym
2020-09-19 17:56:57 <davean> OS people had it too, but not as well codified
2020-09-19 17:57:01 <merijn> monochrom: I'm surprised ACID is as recent as 1992, I would've expected much older
2020-09-19 17:57:07 × codygman quits (~codygman@47-184-107-46.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-19 17:57:12 <davean> merijn: it is much older
2020-09-19 17:57:22 → codygman joins (~codygman@47-184-107-46.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-19 17:57:23 <davean> it predates non-heirarchical DBs
2020-09-19 17:59:49 → mitchellsalad_ joins (uid40617@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gjkhwibbalutbgvt)
2020-09-19 18:00:01 <davean> I've read papers from <1975 that specified that set of requirements
2020-09-19 18:00:02 × SteveMcIntyre quits (~SteveMcIn@193.56.252.210) ()
2020-09-19 18:00:02 × mitchellsalad_ quits (uid40617@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gjkhwibbalutbgvt) (Client Quit)
2020-09-19 18:00:07 → DavidEichmann joins (~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-19 18:00:15 <davean> I think the actual term is circa 1980 though since people got tired of writing out the laws eventually ;)
2020-09-19 18:00:49 → mitchellsalad joins (uid40617@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nltqasqieelsglgp)
2020-09-19 18:02:01 <davean> databases, filesystems, transactional memory, concurrency, all sorta the same problem.
2020-09-19 18:02:37 <davean> Not distributed systems though, thats its own f-ed up mess
2020-09-19 18:03:28 hackage uniqueness-periods-vector-stats 0.1.2.0 - A very basic descriptive statistics. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-stats-0.1.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-09-19 18:04:16 × dsf quits (~dsf@cpe-75-80-106-108.san.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-19 18:04:30 × Khisanth quits (~Khisanth@166.sub-174-197-147.myvzw.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-19 18:05:13 → lucid_0x80 joins (~lucid_0x8@188.253.232.248)
2020-09-19 18:06:30 → Jeanne-Kamikaze joins (~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-131-92.cust.tzulo.com)
2020-09-19 18:07:40 × wasm quits (~azureuser@52.187.128.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-19 18:08:56 × DavidEichmann quits (~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-19 18:11:28 × Thra11 quits (~Thra11@5.1.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-19 18:11:47 <dolio> You mean, a lot of seemingly different topics lead to people coming up with the same sort of idea, and it might be useful to abstract those ideas in a common way so that ideas from one topic might be applicable to others?
2020-09-19 18:12:47 → dsf joins (~dsf@cpe-75-80-106-108.san.res.rr.com)
2020-09-19 18:12:57 hackage uniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.5.1.0 - Examples of usage for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.5.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-09-19 18:13:00 × TooDifficult quits (~TooDiffic@139.59.59.230) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-19 18:13:04 <davean> dolio: they just are applicable. The optimal solutions for the different domains vary by the constraints but the problems are the same.
2020-09-19 18:14:38 <davean> ARIES is stronger than STM needs, but its solving the same thing in a similar way and the problem setups are the same other than some of the tools they have to solve it with.
2020-09-19 18:14:43 <davean> for example
2020-09-19 18:14:57 hackage commonmark-pandoc 0.2.0.1 - Bridge between commonmark and pandoc AST. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/commonmark-pandoc-0.2.0.1 (JohnMacFarlane)
2020-09-19 18:15:02 <davean> and filesystems are even closer, though they don't deal with the out-of-space issue as much because they know their transaction sizes.
2020-09-19 18:15:25 <dolio> Yeah, those domains are probably too obviously similar.
2020-09-19 18:15:35 <davean> And all that is a constrained case of concurrency
2020-09-19 18:16:07 <davean> Mind you basicly every filesystem has had a bug releated to the parts it strips out of ARIES
2020-09-19 18:16:10 × ryansmccoy quits (~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-19 18:16:33 → ryansmccoy joins (~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132)
2020-09-19 18:17:56 → eflister joins (47ee2144@c-71-238-33-68.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2020-09-19 18:18:45 <davean> Most of computer science is boring because its the same problem solved 10 times.
2020-09-19 18:18:57 <davean> if you just learn the base problem you can solve a bunch of them on demand. :(
2020-09-19 18:19:13 <Uniaika> like multiplying matrices very fast
2020-09-19 18:19:26 <Uniaika> a bunch of modern machine learning and stuff are based on multiplying matrices
2020-09-19 18:19:44 × vicfred quits (~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-09-19 18:20:12 <davean> Uniaika: which brings me to the fact that Data.Ix.Ix lacks "rangePos :: (a, a) -> Int -> a" which makes doing suck with 'array' difficult!
2020-09-19 18:20:25 <davean> s/suck/such/
2020-09-19 18:21:10 → vicfred joins (~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2020-09-19 18:21:55 → Khisanth joins (~Khisanth@166.sub-174-197-147.myvzw.com)
2020-09-19 18:21:58 <Uniaika> davean: it's only one MR away from reality
2020-09-19 18:22:04 <davean> Uniaika: incorrect.
2020-09-19 18:22:10 <Uniaika> okay maybe two.
2020-09-19 18:22:13 <Uniaika> :P
2020-09-19 18:22:17 <davean> Uniaika: No. Its a core library.
2020-09-19 18:22:26 → juuandyy joins (~juuandyy@90.166.144.65)
2020-09-19 18:22:26 <davean> and a Haskell Report type class.
2020-09-19 18:22:35 <davean> In theory we *should* get a new report to change it.
2020-09-19 18:22:46 <davean> in practice we'd still have the "we changed something in base" fight.
2020-09-19 18:23:16 <davean> Data.Ix isn't a 3rd party library :/
2020-09-19 18:24:07 × xff0x_ quits (~fox@2001:1a81:5373:6a00:4c7a:e2f5:6d60:257d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-19 18:24:48 <Uniaika> yeah that's right
2020-09-19 18:24:48 × lep-delete quits (~lep@94.31.82.44) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-19 18:24:55 → geekosaur joins (42d52102@66.213.33.2)
2020-09-19 18:25:02 <davean> If I could just submit a MR I'd have already done it.
2020-09-19 18:25:06 <davean> this is core infastructure
2020-09-19 18:25:19 → xff0x_ joins (~fox@2001:1a81:5373:6a00:4ccb:e51f:bb16:7d67)
2020-09-19 18:25:24 <davean> It has a trivial default implimentation from what the type class already provides.
2020-09-19 18:25:29 → lep-delete joins (~lep@94.31.82.44)
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