Logs: freenode/#haskell

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2020-09-17 01:58:13	<monochrom>	Although, the pipes-conduit dichotomy is already a vast improvement compared to the long gone days of 3 choices of iteratees, 2 choices of enumeratees, and 5 choices of something in between.
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2020-09-17 02:00:20	<sm[m]>	Yup
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2020-09-17 02:00:51	<sm[m]>	also, higher level frameworks will continue to improve
2020-09-17 02:02:20	<sm[m]>	I think the ide tools are going to be impactful, they will attract more devs
2020-09-17 02:04:03	<sm[m]>	vs code with hls 0.4 really works and is a real step up IME
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2020-09-17 02:15:46	<sshine>	yes
2020-09-17 02:16:00	<sshine>	I didn't have to manually compile a file and copy it into VSCode's directory!
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2020-09-17 02:39:32	←	asan parts (~yan4138@114.84.148.87) ()
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2020-09-17 02:40:01	<frdg>	how can I go from `Functor f => f (g (a)) -> g a` without pattern matching ?
2020-09-17 02:40:17	<frdg>	err and `Functor g`
2020-09-17 02:40:36	<c_wraith>	You can't just collapse them for any old pair of functors
2020-09-17 02:40:57	<frdg>	oh
2020-09-17 02:41:55	<frdg>	what about Traversables?
2020-09-17 02:42:25	<c_wraith>	:t sequenceA
2020-09-17 02:42:27	<lambdabot>	(Traversable t, Applicative f) => t (f a) -> f (t a)
2020-09-17 02:42:35	<c_wraith>	that's as close as they'll get you
2020-09-17 02:42:51	<frdg>	hmm
2020-09-17 02:43:16	<ski>	@type asum
2020-09-17 02:43:18	<lambdabot>	(Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a
2020-09-17 02:44:11	<frdg>	this should work.
2020-09-17 02:44:14	<c_wraith>	Oh, yeah. If Alternative is good enough, that works
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2020-09-17 02:47:08	<exodrifter>	Does anyone happen to know if there's a Storable instance of Text floating around out there or how you'd generally represent UTF-8 in an FFI interface?
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2020-09-17 02:48:37	<c_wraith>	text isn't even UTF-8
2020-09-17 02:49:24	<exodrifter>	oh, unicode and utf-8 are not the same thing?
2020-09-17 02:49:30	<c_wraith>	nope
2020-09-17 02:49:36	<c_wraith>	unicode is a character set
2020-09-17 02:49:44	<c_wraith>	utf8 is one way of encoding that character set in bytes
2020-09-17 02:50:43	<exodrifter>	ah, I see. I assumed Text was UTF8 because of decodeUtf8, but that's just what character set to use for the bytestring
2020-09-17 02:50:55	<c_wraith>	exactly
2020-09-17 02:51:15	<c_wraith>	well. just what encoding to use for the bytestring.
2020-09-17 02:51:35	<exodrifter>	yeah. what does it mean for Text to be unicode then? is it not any particular character set until you decide to encode it?
2020-09-17 02:52:04	<c_wraith>	unicode is a character set. How the characters are represented inside a computer is an implementation detail
2020-09-17 02:52:58	<c_wraith>	There are a bunch of ways to serialize it that are standardizes, though. UTF-8, UTF-16, and UCS4 are the options that give you the full unicode character set.
2020-09-17 02:53:03	<c_wraith>	*standardized
2020-09-17 02:53:17	<exodrifter>	so if i wanted to, say, encode a text into a utf-8 bytestring then marshall that representation out using FFI -- that wouldn't necessarily work because the memory representation might be different?
2020-09-17 02:53:23	<dolio>	You could represent it other ways in a bytestring, too.
2020-09-17 02:53:47	<dolio>	But you'd need to be careful.
2020-09-17 02:53:50	<c_wraith>	Right. You should go through an explicit conversion to the correct encoding you want in a ByteString, then use useAsCString for the bytestring
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2020-09-17 02:54:57	<exodrifter>	well, i want to have a foreign function call the haskell code, not the other way around, so useAsCString wouldn't work for what i'm trying to do.
2020-09-17 02:55:04	<c_wraith>	Ah, ok.
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2020-09-17 02:55:45	<exodrifter>	dolio: what do you mean exactly? represent it in what other ways?
2020-09-17 02:56:21	<dolio>	You could have UTF-16 in a byte string, but each byte would be half of one of the basic units of the encoding.
2020-09-17 02:56:51	<dolio>	Also it probably gives you more ways to mess up the endianness.
2020-09-17 02:56:59	<exodrifter>	Ah, okay, yeah that makes sense
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2020-09-17 02:58:22	<exodrifter>	so if the way the UTF-8 is represented is an implementation detail, is there then no way to marshall a UTF-8 string without implementing a decoder in the foreign code that knows how it's represented in haskell?
2020-09-17 02:59:32	<dolio>	The foreign function is going to need to know the encoding used.
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2020-09-17 02:59:48	<dolio>	If it's UTF-8, it'll need to know that.
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2020-09-17 03:01:58	<exodrifter>	Hmm, okay. So if it knew the bytes were UTF-8, then it should be fine? I'm not sure if the UTF-8 standard defines how it would be represented in memory...
2020-09-17 03:02:18	<dolio>	UTF-8 is a particular way of storing unicode.
2020-09-17 03:03:27	<exodrifter>	Yes, so does that apply to in-memory? I'm aware that it would work for files, since i can usually open UTF-8 documents regardless of what computer i'm on.
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2020-09-17 03:03:57	<dolio>	It can be stored that way in memory, too. But Text doesn't.
2020-09-17 03:04:53	<exodrifter>	sure. So I just need to encode the text into a UTF-8 bytestring, then figure out how to convert the bytestring into a CString, and that should work it sounds like
2020-09-17 03:04:55	<dolio>	That's one of the resons there's `decodeUtf8`
2020-09-17 03:05:10	<dolio>	Yeah, probably.
2020-09-17 03:05:39	<dolio>	Although C doesn't necessarily know anything about UTF-8. That'd be up to libraries.
2020-09-17 03:06:20	<exodrifter>	yeah, that makes sense. But, I'm assuming that if the user was using a library that had the equivalent of decodeUtf8 it should work
2020-09-17 03:06:55	<exodrifter>	It's too bad ByteString doesn't expose a function that lets you return the CString... I'm looking at the implementation of it and i suuuuure don't understand it yet
2020-09-17 03:06:57	<dolio>	And e.g. all sorts of Microsoft stuff uses UTF-16, I think.
2020-09-17 03:07:29	<exodrifter>	I think i am satisfied limiting my use case to UTF-8.
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2020-09-17 03:08:19	<dolio>	Yeah, that's pretty safe.
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2020-09-17 03:09:48	<exodrifter>	oh -- i guess i don't really want a CString since I don't want to be limited by ascii. I want to return something more like an array of bytes or something.
2020-09-17 03:10:45	<exodrifter>	...wait, that is what byte is in c isn't it.
2020-09-17 03:10:47	<dolio>	I think CString is a char pointer.
2020-09-17 03:10:58	<exodrifter>	yeah, it's a char*

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