Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2020-09-16 20:45:09 | <maerwald> | Ah, you mean IO... anything goes |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:19 | <Cale> | It has several... |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:20 | <monochrom> | Likewise, we can all speak badly about a semantics issue, as opposed to a whole "paradigm". |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:25 | × | knupfer quits (~Thunderbi@200116b82ca8150058b8c4b5b05244fc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:27 | <lc_> | I recently tried this sort of exception handling... scheme in golang. I don't know if it's insane or not |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:29 | <hyperisco> | well, the argumentation I was reading liked the unchecked ethos |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:32 | <maerwald> | And none of them work consistently :) |
| 2020-09-16 20:45:36 | → | gmt joins (~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2020-09-16 20:46:06 | <lc_> | Basically, when a function would normally return an error, I just give it two callbacks instead. One will func(err error) and the other will func(goodies Goodies) |
| 2020-09-16 20:46:34 | <hyperisco> | unchecked may as well mean unityped errors |
| 2020-09-16 20:46:40 | <Graypup_> | monochrom, the ones I've had a lot of trouble with are hardly advanced. Just like, figuring wtf they expect me to return (the short version of it), when some person who thought they were smart put the result through 14 monad transformers making the type fall off the screen |
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| 2020-09-16 20:47:19 | <maerwald> | transformers aren't worth it... just use IO |
| 2020-09-16 20:47:26 | <monochrom> | Well OK, then it is due to some web frameworks going crazy with 14 levels of monad transformers. |
| 2020-09-16 20:47:28 | <dolio> | That doesn't seem like it's GHC's fault. |
| 2020-09-16 20:47:34 | <hyperisco> | my experience says there is such niche use of it that it wasn't worth my bother |
| 2020-09-16 20:47:36 | <monochrom> | But it is still not representative of the majority. |
| 2020-09-16 20:47:54 | <hyperisco> | there isn't any point to sussing out different types of errors unless you're going to do something different with them |
| 2020-09-16 20:48:01 | <lc_> | I use this scheme to cache and replace globals, too, in golang |
| 2020-09-16 20:48:11 | <monochrom> | Call me academic but I refuse to accept that web programming is representative of programming. |
| 2020-09-16 20:48:17 | <hyperisco> | and practically speaking, usually just printing a string somewhere or crashing suffices |
| 2020-09-16 20:48:18 | <maerwald> | I guess fpcomplete frameworks usually make heavy use of transformers |
| 2020-09-16 20:48:19 | <Graypup_> | dolio, I mean, not entirely? but the only way I found out e.g. about the MForm alias was reading docs and other peoples' source coded and the vanishingly few examples |
| 2020-09-16 20:48:40 | <Graypup_> | haskellers don't seem to believe in writing examples often which is very frustrating as someone trying to learn |
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| 2020-09-16 20:48:47 | × | stree quits (~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception) |
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| 2020-09-16 20:49:10 | <lc_> | I'm a web programmer and it's awful. I wish you could make money programming compilers. Not that I know anything about compilers or compiler design, just... The idea of having a program I just run on my computer that does some computation and then outputs some computation |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:12 | <hyperisco> | I thought web framework = TH hell |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:24 | <monochrom> | I agree that some of the web frameworks I have seen get close to requiring PhD in CS. |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:24 | <lc_> | Instead of having to deal with database errors, pipelines, schema migrations, etc. etc. etc. |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:28 | <Graypup_> | oh I have debugged TH bugs in persistent also |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:35 | <Graypup_> | that was a bad day |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:40 | <monochrom> | I disagree that this is representative of Haskell programming. |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:40 | <hyperisco> | like, back in the 2000's "web framework" became inseparable from "code generation" |
| 2020-09-16 20:49:43 | <rustisafungus> | lc_: have you used elm? |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:00 | <lc_> | rustisafungus: I have not |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:24 | <hyperisco> | and all that is happening in Haskell frameworks is a somewhat more disciplined code generation |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:26 | <rustisafungus> | lc_: please take a moment and write tic tac toe or something in elm, you will be very pleasantly surprised |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:28 | <maerwald> | Theres something missing in Software Engineering... no matter what language you use, imo. It's the "Engineering". |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:30 | → | asdfasdfasdf joins (339a7d12@51.154.125.18) |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:39 | <Graypup_> | also the persistent folks said "oh you should read our tests to figure out how to use compound keying" when the tests were incredibly hard to follow since they were doing clever stuff to write the tests concisely at the expense of understanding the code |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:47 | <hyperisco> | be it TH or crazy daisy type classes / families |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:56 | <Graypup_> | people seem to be very allergic to writing examples |
| 2020-09-16 20:50:58 | <lc_> | I should say, back-end web developer*, not front-end. My partner handles that |
| 2020-09-16 20:51:16 | <Graypup_> | I hope that the library I maintain is an exception |
| 2020-09-16 20:51:21 | <rustisafungus> | lc_: you know, even though you are back-end, give elm a try |
| 2020-09-16 20:51:33 | <koala_man> | lc_: Facebook does a lot of compiler work. I had no idea until they released Infer, the Java/ObjC static analysis tool written in OCaml. |
| 2020-09-16 20:51:33 | <lc_> | I just write golang stuff. I'd literally kms if I had to write javascript and css for a living, stg |
| 2020-09-16 20:51:49 | <rustisafungus> | lc_: elm was designed for a person like you |
| 2020-09-16 20:53:05 | × | __Joker quits (~Joker@180.151.106.108) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2020-09-16 20:53:13 | <Cale> | I've been working on GHC lately for one of our clients, and can easily be a good deal more tedious at times than working on our full stack Haskell web/mobile applications. |
| 2020-09-16 20:53:22 | <lc_> | I am still giggling that you caught that maerwald btw |
| 2020-09-16 20:53:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2020-09-16 20:53:42 | <lc_> | I normally do that to other ppl I know |
| 2020-09-16 20:54:45 | × | rustisafungus quits (~rustisafu@2602:306:cd3c:9350:210f:c391:77b9:29cb) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2020-09-16 20:54:56 | → | qqqqqq joins (~Me@185.142.40.151) |
| 2020-09-16 20:54:59 | <qqqqqq> | 6 Proof that 4Jesus worshiped one God same as muslims do: 10- Jesus identifying the commandment: "The Lord our God is One Lord" (Mark 12:29) to be the most important of all As stated in (Mark 12:29): Jesus was asked "Which commandment is the most important of all?" Jesus replied, "This is the most important: Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord"12 (Mark 12:29) as in Quran: {Say He is God the one (Allah)} [Quran chapter 112]. |
| 2020-09-16 20:54:59 | <qqqqqq> | 6 so the above qoute(mark12:29) is a clear evidence that Jesus was directing us towards monothiesm belief and to consider it as the very first of all commandments; 10 also here is the firsts of the The Ten Commandments(to moses) which is similar to what he was directing us towards: [10 1 - I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.] |
| 2020-09-16 20:55:02 | ← | qqqqqq parts (~Me@185.142.40.151) () |
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| 2020-09-16 20:55:47 | <hyperisco> | maerwald, move fast and break things man |
| 2020-09-16 20:55:49 | <sm[m]> | Graypup_: maybe you're ready to give https://ihp.digitallyinduced.com/ a try ? |
| 2020-09-16 20:55:53 | <Graypup_> | is god a monad /s |
| 2020-09-16 20:55:58 | <monochrom> | Ironically, I would welcome a theology war if it replaced a language war. |
| 2020-09-16 20:56:08 | <ski> | Graypup_ : ask Leibniz ? |
| 2020-09-16 20:56:11 | <maerwald> | hyperisco: yeah, but forgot my sunglasses |
| 2020-09-16 20:56:46 | × | wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2020-09-16 20:56:52 | <hyperisco> | I need to figure out how to turn renouncing programming into a career |
| 2020-09-16 20:56:56 | → | knupfer joins (~Thunderbi@i5E86B4D3.versanet.de) |
| 2020-09-16 20:57:00 | <hyperisco> | then I can actually renounce programming |
| 2020-09-16 20:57:13 | <hyperisco> | was better as a hobby tbh |
| 2020-09-16 20:57:24 | <Graypup_> | sm[m], interesting. maybe I'll use it for my personal projects where I am swearing so hard at excel for being a garbage programming tool incapable of even making hyperlinks and want to immediately rewrite as webapps |
| 2020-09-16 20:57:34 | <monochrom> | If you like something, don't turn it into a job. |
| 2020-09-16 20:57:50 | <lc_> | THis might be my golang speaking, but it feels like 90% of programming is edge cases and it kinda sucks |
| 2020-09-16 20:57:57 | <hyperisco> | yeah but I was mistaken on the reason why |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:02 | <monochrom> | A job causes burnout. Do you want burnout from something you like? |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:05 | wroathe_ | is now known as wroathe |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:05 | <sm[m]> | Graypup_: it's new but I think has legs |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:18 | <hyperisco> | I thought the reason was because you'd get burned out doing what you used to love to do |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:40 | <sm[m]> | (If you can stomach nix) |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:50 | <maerwald> | you burn out a few times and then you get input-addicted |
| 2020-09-16 20:58:50 | <monochrom> | Yeah that's the reason I know. |
| 2020-09-16 20:59:04 | <hyperisco> | and that isn't the issue, as I see it… the issue is that you don't really have enough control over what you do |
| 2020-09-16 20:59:12 | <Cale> | monochrom: haha, I wonder what was going through this driveby spammer's head... "This'll blow the minds of all those polytheistic christians in the programming language and software project channels on freenode" |
| 2020-09-16 20:59:32 | <glguy> | There's not usually a lot going on in that kind of person's head |
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| 2020-09-16 20:59:47 | × | gestone quits (~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2020-09-16 20:59:48 | <maerwald> | Cale: tbf... it could be a teenager.. at least I hope so |
| 2020-09-16 20:59:56 | <hyperisco> | so the result is I still say I like to program, but "not this" |
| 2020-09-16 20:59:58 | <monochrom> | Cale, I think it's the simpler "this channel size is large enough". |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:00 | <Graypup_> | sm[m], funny thing right |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:00 | <maerwald> | not sure what to think if an adult wrote that |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:01 | × | Gaz quits (~Gaz@84.39.116.180) () |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:04 | <Graypup_> | I learned nix before haskell |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:24 | × | danvet_ quits (~danvet@2a02:168:57f4:0:5f80:650d:c6e6:3453) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:28 | <Graypup_> | because I had to fix my project's build system to not require a giant docker container with ghcjs because ghcjs is such a pain to compile |
| 2020-09-16 21:00:32 | <hyperisco> | because "programming" can also be hacking on JSON files to get Cloud Formation working |
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