Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-05-28 19:49:03 | <Franciman> | I want to prove that |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:07 | <edwardk> | libertat suggested the current topic, which is #haskell discussion, which seems suitably meta. ;) |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:08 | <Franciman> | MyType a == MyType a |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:13 | <Franciman> | but ghc says they are different |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:24 | <edwardk> | and roughly fits the topic these days |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:33 | <edwardk> | we're down around 2-3 questions/day |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:33 | <Franciman> | how can I make it understand that they are equal? |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:53 | → | nsilv-phone joins (~nsilv-pho@37.162.42.151) |
| 2021-05-28 19:49:56 | <larryba> | edwardk, ok, hope most old users come in here one way or another. IIRC #haskell had close to a thousand users before all of this started |
| 2021-05-28 19:50:08 | → | marinelli joins (~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) |
| 2021-05-28 19:50:16 | <edwardk> | larryba: most of them have moved over. there's ~600 people here. there were 1000 before the drama, but many of them were lurkers. |
| 2021-05-28 19:50:31 | <edwardk> | so getting 60% of the channel swapped over exceeded my wildest expectations |
| 2021-05-28 19:51:02 | ← | Giorgio[m] parts (~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8) () |
| 2021-05-28 19:51:15 | <boxscape> | Franciman can you provide a bit more context, some code maybe? |
| 2021-05-28 19:51:16 | <edwardk> | sm[m]: as for user count, its pretty stable. it crept up from 20 to 120 and stalled. |
| 2021-05-28 19:51:39 | <Franciman> | boxscape: yes, I am using servant's UVerb |
| 2021-05-28 19:51:49 | <sm[m]> | ah, right, it was small. Sorry to see that many :) |
| 2021-05-28 19:51:52 | <Franciman> | and |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:10 | <Franciman> | and I have a polymorphic data type `Response a b c` |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:13 | <sm[m]> | but that's looking like a pretty thorough move nevertheless |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:22 | × | nsilv-phone-1 quits (~nsilv-pho@host-82-50-119-12.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:32 | <Franciman> | my error is basically: |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:38 | <jumper149> | boxscape: I'll try that, nix is just giving me a hard time atm :D |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:45 | <boxscape> | ok |
| 2021-05-28 19:52:54 | × | Morrow quits (~MorrowM_@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-28 19:53:10 | <Franciman> | boxscape: https://bpa.st/JLJA |
| 2021-05-28 19:53:52 | → | ub joins (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d1274882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-28 19:53:55 | <boxscape> | hm, unfortunately I don't have experience with servant, so someone might have to help you |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:02 | × | connrs quits (~connrs@s1.connrs.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:25 | × | monadlight quits (~chris@bras-vprn-nwmkon8540w-lp130-19-184-147-249-234.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:32 | <Franciman> | https://bpa.st/RYFA |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:34 | <Franciman> | and this is the data type |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:42 | <dminuoso> | 21:45:53 boxscape | jumper149 hmm in most cases from what I've seen eta expanding should be enough to get things to work with simplified subsumption, though if you've tried that, I don't know |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:44 | → | connrs joins (~connrs@s1.connrs.uk) |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:48 | <dminuoso> | Uh, what is simplified subsumption? |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:54 | × | ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d8974882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2021-05-28 19:54:54 | ub | is now known as ubert |
| 2021-05-28 19:55:05 | <jumper149> | dminuoso: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/migration/9.0#simplified-subsumption |
| 2021-05-28 19:55:17 | <boxscape> | dminuoso https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0287-simplify-subsumption.rst for the the proposal |
| 2021-05-28 19:56:47 | × | tromp quits (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-28 19:56:48 | → | myShoggoth joins (~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 2021-05-28 19:56:59 | → | Giorgio[m] joins (~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8) |
| 2021-05-28 19:58:02 | <boxscape> | s/someone/someone else |
| 2021-05-28 19:58:24 | × | Kevin578 quits (~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-28 19:58:29 | <edwardk> | larryba: see pms |
| 2021-05-28 19:58:52 | <geekosaur> | I've seen that kind of thing happen when there are version mismatches between libraries, although with modern stack or cabal that shouldn't be possible supposedly |
| 2021-05-28 19:59:07 | × | marinelli quits (~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli) |
| 2021-05-28 19:59:25 | × | ddellacosta quits (~ddellacos@86.106.121.23) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2021-05-28 20:00:02 | × | connrs quits (~connrs@s1.connrs.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-28 20:00:09 | <larryba> | edwardk, I saw them, I can't reply in PM though, even though I just registered? anyway, I understand. I am also not a big fan of having two active channels, especially considering the freenode situation, and would rather push for the move in here, as much as possible, without risking getting taken over again, and then having no way to notify users about this channel |
| 2021-05-28 20:00:18 | Giorgio[m] | is now known as marinelli[m] |
| 2021-05-28 20:00:44 | → | connrs joins (~connrs@s1.connrs.uk) |
| 2021-05-28 20:01:20 | <edwardk> | larryba: it is in effect one active channel, and a very unofficial place that continues to exist for legacy reasons insofar as freenode has deigned to allow us to continue to exist there. |
| 2021-05-28 20:01:24 | ← | marinelli[m] parts (~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8) () |
| 2021-05-28 20:01:34 | <orzo> | i dont understand the fuss. what would happen if channels like #haskell just ignored the take-over drama and continued on the servers they were on? |
| 2021-05-28 20:01:37 | → | argento joins (~argent0@168.227.96.51) |
| 2021-05-28 20:02:29 | × | vicfred quits (~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-28 20:02:45 | <dminuoso> | boxscape: Mmm, a bit too thick for this late of the day. |
| 2021-05-28 20:02:51 | <geekosaur> | freenode invades and forces them onto unofficial channels, which is what happened to #haskell and a bunch of other channels |
| 2021-05-28 20:02:53 | <boxscape> | understandable |
| 2021-05-28 20:02:59 | → | marinelli[m] joins (~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8) |
| 2021-05-28 20:03:02 | <larryba> | orzo, #haskell (and hundreds of other channels) was forcefully taken over for just mentioning libera in the topic |
| 2021-05-28 20:03:07 | <larryba> | were* |
| 2021-05-28 20:03:59 | → | marinelli joins (~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) |
| 2021-05-28 20:03:59 | × | tose quits (~tose@ip-85-160-8-1.eurotel.cz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-28 20:04:08 | <edwardk> | orzo: multiple channel ops were ircops on freenode. the ircops that left by and large got klined off the server. that comes across like "dude, he only shot your friend, not you, why don't you want to hang out someplace where he has unilateral control?" |
| 2021-05-28 20:05:00 | <wroathe> | edwardk: I imagine the pimp game operates similarly |
| 2021-05-28 20:05:18 | <orzo> | i'm not advocating anything, just learning about the situation which i wasn't following |
| 2021-05-28 20:05:23 | <dminuoso> | boxscape: And even the motivating example in SPJs proposal behaves differently on my machine. This does not terminate: let x = x; g f = f `seq` 0 in g x |
| 2021-05-28 20:05:26 | <edwardk> | i don't feel terribly comfortable going from a place where we've had a stable environment for 16 years to one where policies are being interpreted in drastically new ways whenever it suits the guy running the house. |
| 2021-05-28 20:06:10 | <sm[m]> | orzo: here you go: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=false&query=freenode&sort=byDate&type=story |
| 2021-05-28 20:06:26 | <edwardk> | here we know who we're working with. we know how they operate. and the server ops that have been working with us all along to fight spam/bots in the channel are still here alongside us. |
| 2021-05-28 20:06:43 | <boxscape> | dminuoso huh, yeah, strange |
| 2021-05-28 20:07:02 | <edwardk> | there? we're getting days worth of work dumped on us with no notice in response to policies nobody has had time to read let alone respond to, and the policy feedback channel gets muted and ignored. |
| 2021-05-28 20:07:28 | × | _ht quits (~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-28 20:08:15 | <int-e> | and that's before digging up dirt about the current owner |
| 2021-05-28 20:08:45 | <wroathe> | int-e: Someone dug up dirt on someone? |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:14 | <int-e> | some court cases. also the whole story of how freenode was sold stinks. |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:20 | int-e | shrugs |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:43 | → | vicfred joins (~vicfred@user/vicfred) |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:49 | <boxscape> | dminuoso ah |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:51 | <edwardk> | add to that nonsense like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27300842 |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:53 | <boxscape> | dminuoso you have to use the types he uses |
| 2021-05-28 20:09:56 | <boxscape> | for g and f |
| 2021-05-28 20:10:12 | <boxscape> | f :: ∀ab.a → b → b and |
| 2021-05-28 20:10:13 | <boxscape> | g :: (∀p.p → (∀q.q → q)) → Int |
| 2021-05-28 20:10:19 | ← | marinelli[m] parts (~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8) () |
| 2021-05-28 20:10:42 | → | tromp joins (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-28 20:11:41 | × | connrs quits (~connrs@s1.connrs.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-28 20:12:03 | × | Voeid quits (luke@voeid.cf) (Quit: Leaving...) |
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| 2021-05-28 20:12:35 | → | Voeid joins (luke@voeid.cf) |
| 2021-05-28 20:12:44 | <dminuoso> | % let f :: ∀a b. a → b → b; f = f; g :: (∀p.p → (∀q.q → q)) → Int; g f = f `seq` 0 in () |
| 2021-05-28 20:12:44 | <yahb> | dminuoso: ; <interactive>:90:72: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `a0' with actual type `p0 -> forall q. q -> q'; Cannot instantiate unification variable `a0'; with a type involving polytypes: p0 -> forall q. q -> q; * In the first argument of `seq', namely `f'; In the expression: f `seq` 0; In an equation for `g': g f = f `seq` 0 |
| 2021-05-28 20:12:51 | <dminuoso> | Mmm. I guess yahb runs on 9.0.1 or newer? |
| 2021-05-28 20:13:04 | <boxscape> | % :!ghc --version |
| 2021-05-28 20:13:04 | <yahb> | boxscape: The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 9.0.1 |
| 2021-05-28 20:13:07 | <boxscape> | yep |
| 2021-05-28 20:13:27 | <dminuoso> | boxscape: Alright, I grok only a portion of that proposal, but enough to get the gist of it. |
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