Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2026-04-08 13:18:59 | ski | would simply not use `$' at all, there |
| 2026-04-08 13:20:19 | tomsmeding | too |
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| 2026-04-08 13:41:40 | <gentauro> | ski: what's F# pipe-opeator in Haskell? I recall they ported it so you could read code from left-to-right, top-down, just like you read "plain inglés" |
| 2026-04-08 13:41:59 | <[exa]> | gentauro: (&) ? |
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| 2026-04-08 14:11:42 | <ski> | "plain inglés" ? |
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| 2026-04-08 15:23:39 | <gentauro> | [exa]: oh yeah, that's the one -> https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/base-4.22.0.0/docs/Data-Function.html#v:-38- |
| 2026-04-08 15:25:19 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Certified spanglish moment |
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| 2026-04-08 15:28:37 | <gentauro> | Bowuigi: yes |
| 2026-04-08 15:28:59 | <gentauro> | ski: likes to code one way, and I code another |
| 2026-04-08 15:29:30 | <gentauro> | I wonder if it would be possible to have truly "semantic versining" in Haskell, just like `unison` has it -> «Semantic version control. Unison's version control is language-aware. There are no conflicts due to code formatting or whitespace, order of imports, order of definitions in a file, or any other differences that aren't semantically meaningful» |
| 2026-04-08 15:29:40 | gentauro | source: https://www.unison-lang.org/docs/what-problems-does-unison-solve/ |
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| 2026-04-08 15:52:20 | <danza> | haskell already has semantic versioning, as far as i understand it. Version numbers should reflect a version's compatibility |
| 2026-04-08 15:53:09 | <danza> | some languages (elm?) have the version numbers calculated automatically depending on interface changes, but that's another story |
| 2026-04-08 15:55:25 | <geekosaur> | different application of "semantic": you're talking about exposed API, the usage here is code meaning whether exposed or not |
| 2026-04-08 15:56:46 | <geekosaur> | the former impacts compatibility, the latter is about VCS thrashing |
| 2026-04-08 15:58:15 | <danza> | oh i see. Cheers geekosaur |
| 2026-04-08 15:59:29 | <geekosaur> | so for a concrete example, cabal is still using an ancient fourmolu because if/when we upgrade and reformat the code base, backports will conflict due to whitespace changes and possibly line splitting |
| 2026-04-08 15:59:48 | <geekosaur> | this wouldn't happen with semantics-aware VC |
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| 2026-04-08 16:00:25 | <danza> | yeah makes sense |
| 2026-04-08 16:01:30 | <danza> | but having a version control tool that is language-specific sounds too demanding to me. I would rather live without the feature |
| 2026-04-08 16:02:11 | <c_wraith> | the point of comparison, Unison, is an unusual one. It's not actually the version control that does that. It's the language itself. |
| 2026-04-08 16:02:44 | <c_wraith> | function calls are content-addressable. |
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| 2026-04-08 16:03:55 | <c_wraith> | this has its own downsides. If there's a bug in a function, fixing it means updating every place it was called by content. |
| 2026-04-08 16:07:27 | <c_wraith> | It also has awkward limitations. I believe it supports alpha renaming when determining if code is "the same", but not most other trivial refactorings of the token sequence. |
| 2026-04-08 16:08:18 | <gentauro> | danza: Elm has `syntactic versioning`. I think `unison` is the only one with "real" semantic versining |
| 2026-04-08 16:08:53 | <c_wraith> | I understand why. The problem quickly becomes intractable. But then you start to feel the limits in a way then doesn't seem much like an actual improvement. |
| 2026-04-08 16:09:07 | <c_wraith> | *that doesn't |
| 2026-04-08 16:10:33 | <c_wraith> | I really think gofmt is a better solution to the same problem. And I really don't like gofmt. |
| 2026-04-08 16:10:43 | <gentauro> | c_wraith: and danza I recall from a talk (example). If somebody defineds additions as `sum x y = x + y` and another person does it as `add a b = (+) a b`, then they have the same semantic versioning and would result in the same number (hash) |
| 2026-04-08 16:11:40 | <danza> | well that's what c_wraith has been chatting about, content-addressing |
| 2026-04-08 16:11:43 | gentauro | I'm guessing they have someking of "common ground" (for the sake of the example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index) and that's how they can see if two snippets are the same |
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| 2026-04-08 16:14:33 | <raincomplex> | equivalence of two programs is undecidable in general, right |
| 2026-04-08 16:15:40 | <c_wraith> | yes |
| 2026-04-08 16:16:18 | <c_wraith> | and even a small set of simple transformations results in a massive potential combinatoric explosion |
| 2026-04-08 16:17:30 | <c_wraith> | (some things you can canonicalize away, like fully saturated prefix vs infix application. But other things aren't so easy.) |
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| 2026-04-08 16:23:53 | <gentauro> | c_wraith: FP app -> de-Brujin index -> SKI -> normalize (optimal reduction/transformation): https://tromp.github.io/cl/cl.html |
| 2026-04-08 16:24:56 | <gentauro> | I'm just not aware if this only work for "very simple" logic |
| 2026-04-08 16:28:42 | <c_wraith> | It works decently well for structural changes, even things like pulling a subexpression into a local binding. |
| 2026-04-08 16:29:29 | <c_wraith> | But it can't handle any kind of change that relies on semantic properties. |
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| 2026-04-08 16:31:05 | <c_wraith> | Is a + b the same as b + a? How about a + a and 2 * a? |
| 2026-04-08 16:31:36 | <EvanR> | pulls out a cross indexed table of "kinds of sameness" |
| 2026-04-08 16:32:03 | <c_wraith> | oh, deMorgan's laws! |
| 2026-04-08 16:32:33 | <EvanR> | definitional equality, propositional equality, etc |
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| 2026-04-08 16:34:02 | <c_wraith> | It's not tractable to handle most of those equivalences in practical terms... well before you reach the undecidable cases. |
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