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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2026-03-12 14:23:30 ski . o O ( "A break from programming languages" by Alexis King in 2025-05-29 at <https://lexi-lambda.github.io/blog/2025/05/29/a-break-from-programming-languages/> )
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2026-03-12 14:27:15 <mesaoptimizer> good for her
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2026-03-12 15:48:53 <Wygulmage> Has anyone else looked at https://discourse.haskell.org/t/sneak-peek-bolt-math/13766 and thinks it's well intentioned but unworkable as written?
2026-03-12 15:49:25 <Wygulmage> I'd comment on Discourse but apparently my non-AI browser is not supported...
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2026-03-12 16:10:46 <Wygulmage> Clearly not. So, for example, say you have an instance of `AdditiveSemigroup`. Presumably the only law is that it's a semigroup. Cool. So you define `instance AdditiveSemigroup Integer where add = (*)`. Why not? It satisfies the law. And then you define `instance MultiplicativeSemigroup Integer where mul = (*)` Again, it satisfies the law. And
2026-03-12 16:10:47 <Wygulmage> they're both monoidal, with `one = 1` and `zero = one`. Again, the laws are still satisfied. And then the library claims you have a `Semiring`, and perhaps assumes that `zero` (1) is annihilative for `mul`.
2026-03-12 16:12:02 × Ranhir quits (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2026-03-12 16:16:11 <Wygulmage> Sorry. Is IRC dead, or did I just come at a bad time?
2026-03-12 16:19:33 × somemathguy quits (~somemathg@user/somemathguy) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2026-03-12 16:20:27 <haskellbridge> <sm> it has quiet and busy times. Definitely not dead here, but you may need to wait more than 5m
2026-03-12 16:20:50 <haskellbridge> <sm> s/but.*//
2026-03-12 16:21:58 <haskellbridge> <sm> do you have javascript disabled in your browser ?
2026-03-12 16:22:11 <Wygulmage> Thanks, sm. Just got worried that all the humans had left. *deep breaths*
2026-03-12 16:22:23 <Wygulmage> Not for haskell.org.
2026-03-12 16:22:44 <haskellbridge> <sm> :) we're still here
2026-03-12 16:23:24 <haskellbridge> <sm> I wondered why you couldn't comment at discourse. It requires js I see.
2026-03-12 16:23:56 → somemathguy joins (~somemathg@user/somemathguy)
2026-03-12 16:24:32 <Wygulmage> When I look at what I have blocked, both for discourse-cdn and haskell.org, everything is enabled. But yeah, I won't try to make #haskell into my IT helpers. Clearly that's a me problem.
2026-03-12 16:25:56 <Wygulmage> And possibly a Discourse problem.
2026-03-12 16:27:13 Digitteknohippie is now known as Digit
2026-03-12 16:29:04 → Ranhir joins (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2026-03-12 16:30:19 <Wygulmage> I do have another question that's vaguely related to my initial rant. Are there any major roadblocks in GHC preventing class alias definitions or automatic defaulted superclasses? For example, allowing someone to just write `instance Monad M where...` and let GHC silently take care of `Functor` and `Applicative`, without even having to write
2026-03-12 16:30:20 <Wygulmage> `deriving via WrapMonad M instance Applicative M` ?
2026-03-12 16:43:59 <ski> Wygulmage : i was just (before i read your responses) about to comment on the same issue with not having a single place in the source which takes resposibility for ensuring that distributivity holds
2026-03-12 16:44:45 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2026-03-12 16:47:27 ski coughs and stares at `Read' and `Show'
2026-03-12 16:51:10 ski . o O ( "Class Alias Proposal for Haskell" <http://repetae.net/recent/out/classalias.html>,"Supertyping Suggestion for Haskell" <http://repetae.net/recent/out/supertyping.html>, both by jmeacham)
2026-03-12 16:51:30 → chewybread joins (~chewybrea@user/chewybread)
2026-03-12 16:51:33 <Wygulmage> That's a totally fair point about `Read` and `Show` , but I think they're more clearly "utility" classes that don't have to follow any laws. But you REALLY want your numeric hierarchy to follow well defined laws.
2026-03-12 16:51:41 <EvanR> Wygulmage, the humans are dead
2026-03-12 16:52:02 <EvanR> 🤖
2026-03-12 16:52:58 <Wygulmage> I'm OK with that as long as Edward Kmett has been replaced with a sufficiently advanced chatbot that I can't tell the difference ;(
2026-03-12 16:53:45 <Wygulmage> Which, judging by the AI slop in his youtube feed...
2026-03-12 16:55:07 <davean> Wygulmage: Haha, the AI slop in his youtube feed is a very specific thing and I want more of it ...
2026-03-12 16:55:40 <davean> Wygulmage: assume the AI slop is an inside joke thing.
2026-03-12 16:56:00 <Wygulmage> \O/
2026-03-12 16:56:30 <davean> He's entertaining a specific few of us with a specific project
2026-03-12 16:56:31 <haskellbridge> <ijouw> I was experimenting with naming my class of things to add (+) (using type operators) and using functional dependencies to make sure the compiler can infer the types (if 2 of (left arg, right arg, result) type are known). That does limit it to Vector a + a = Vector a or Vector a + Vector a = Vector a
2026-03-12 16:56:46 <davean> You wouldn't have the context to enjoy it. Its public because it was being posted in a facebook group.
2026-03-12 16:58:42 <Wygulmage> davean: Thanks for outing yourself as part of the SkyNet that replaced Ed.
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