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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2021-05-31 12:40:17 <maerwald> yes
2021-05-31 12:40:19 <schuelermine> hm
2021-05-31 12:40:27 <maerwald> ecosystem effects aren't considered in that proposal at all
2021-05-31 12:40:32 brandonh joins (~brandonh@151.38.202.252)
2021-05-31 12:40:43 <the-coot[m]> maerwald: Agda can be compiled to Haskell; the problem is that in some way you loose control over the low level code (Haskell in this case).
2021-05-31 12:40:48 <merijn> schuelermine: I *like* dependent typs, I just don't like the as ad hoc, backwards incompatible change bolted onto a language not designed for it
2021-05-31 12:41:14 <beaky> i think agda has a ghc backend too that lets you compile agda as executables or libraries and use between haskell modules
2021-05-31 12:41:31 <maerwald> so, why don't we explore that, instead of mudding up Haskell
2021-05-31 12:41:48 <merijn> schuelermine: The appeal of, say, Idris and Agda is that there is only one syntax for type and value level that's identical
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2021-05-31 12:42:14 <schuelermine> I actually feel bolting it in ad hoc could help make it more discoverable
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2021-05-31 12:42:30 <schuelermine> excuse me
2021-05-31 12:42:32 <merijn> Haskell pretty explicitly has *different* type and value level syntax, and mixing them now is confusion where some things are correct, some aren't and some mean something different from what you expect
2021-05-31 12:42:43 <schuelermine> yeah
2021-05-31 12:43:04 <merijn> schuelermine: Have you looked at something like Idris before? Type level programming in Idris is *much* easier to learn/understand than Hasochism, imo
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2021-05-31 12:43:25 <schuelermine> Is Idris better than Agda?
2021-05-31 12:44:37 <schuelermine> actually no wait
2021-05-31 12:44:37 <schuelermine> Does Idris have the same provable productiveness or termination restriction as Agda?
2021-05-31 12:45:12 <beaky> yes idris is more designed to be 'pacman complete' as edwin brady would say while also haveing the nice depdnendent types like agda (although it uses a different theory i think)
2021-05-31 12:45:24 <schuelermine> I have to leave, my battery is dead
2021-05-31 12:45:29 <schuelermine> Thanks
2021-05-31 12:45:45 <tomsmeding> rip battery
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2021-05-31 13:43:18 <tdammers> arahael: I think you missed me by mere minutes, but I usually leave my server idling, so you can just ping me and I'll read later, most of the time. Anyway, glad you like ginger.
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2021-05-31 13:45:51 <kuribas> I think idris is more for practical programming, less for proving stuff.
2021-05-31 13:46:25 <kuribas> At least, I tried to prove stuff in idris, and I found it not very convenient.
2021-05-31 13:46:34 <tdammers> well yeah, that's its mission, isn't it - bring dependent types to a practical programming language. or, if you prefer, bring practical programming to a dependently typed language.
2021-05-31 13:47:04 <kuribas> A disadvantage is that you give up on HM type inference.
2021-05-31 13:47:44 <tdammers> Haskell doesn't do HM either
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