Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-05-26 10:47:18 | <bfrk> | what is streamly? |
| 2021-05-26 10:47:30 | <maerwald> | the fastes streaming implementation in haskell |
| 2021-05-26 10:47:43 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/composewell/streamly |
| 2021-05-26 10:47:47 | <bfrk> | thx |
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| 2021-05-26 10:48:23 | <ksqsf> | i've been thinking lately of a possibility where i use haskell to express logic (with its expressivity and composibility) and generate high-performance code (C or Python or anything) from haskell code |
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| 2021-05-26 10:48:34 | <Guest53e> | bfrk i don't know what people "hate" about haskell thou. maybe comfort zone and plateu reached. maybe genuine criticisms. hard to know |
| 2021-05-26 10:48:40 | <bfrk> | I think streaming is important but I find it gets a bit overhyped. Many tasks cannot be streamed properly, you need back references etc |
| 2021-05-26 10:48:42 | <ksqsf> | does anyone use haskell this way and has experience? |
| 2021-05-26 10:48:58 | ← | simon1 parts (~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at) () |
| 2021-05-26 10:50:12 | <bfrk> | I lately proposed a re-write of some perl code (1/3 the size of the original, 10 times faster) but the idea was rejected |
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| 2021-05-26 10:50:55 | <maerwald> | I believe in rewrites, but in the same language |
| 2021-05-26 10:50:59 | <Guest53e> | bfrk what reasons did they give? |
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| 2021-05-26 10:51:34 | <tdammers> | IME, "hating" Haskell is often a matter of mindset. a programming language is only going to be pleasant if it somehow resonates with how you want to approach programming, and Haskell, being very far on the "deduction" side of things, absolutely does not resonate with the "trial and error" mindset |
| 2021-05-26 10:52:02 | <maerwald> | tdammers: yeah, that's why I prototype in python |
| 2021-05-26 10:52:02 | <starlord> | tdammers good point |
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| 2021-05-26 10:52:18 | <maerwald> | if I don't know what I'm doing, I don't wanna write haskell |
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| 2021-05-26 10:52:36 | <maerwald> | if I have a clear picture, I do |
| 2021-05-26 10:52:38 | <tdammers> | I do, but that's because it lends itself well to my workflow and my way of thinking about a problem |
| 2021-05-26 10:52:59 | <tdammers> | "OK, let's see, what do we have", and then I write down the constraints of the problem domain that I know about |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:09 | <Guest53e> | maerwald but haskell (ADT) allows you to create unclear picture and change it to clearer picture easier! |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:20 | <Guest53e> | :D |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:22 | <maerwald> | I'm more behavior-driven when it comes to prototypes... so python or bash |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:26 | <starlord> | maerwald I usually start demain modeling in haskell, only writing the ADT's I need, when you're done with that you basically know what you're doing |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:28 | <tdammers> | I kind of evolve a "type harness", which helps me ignore the stuff that doesn't matter |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:37 | <maerwald> | when I understand the behavior, I try to figure out how to encode it |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:40 | <tdammers> | and then the refactorability does the rest |
| 2021-05-26 10:53:54 | <tdammers> | right, yeah, I don't care about "behavior" as much as I care about data structures |
| 2021-05-26 10:54:32 | <boxscape> | % Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (putStrLn "hello") GHC.Exts.void# |
| 2021-05-26 10:54:32 | <yahb> | boxscape: hello |
| 2021-05-26 10:54:33 | <boxscape> | ayy no segfault |
| 2021-05-26 10:54:42 | <tdammers> | what do I have, what do I want - those are types; how do I get what I want from what I have - that's a function. |
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| 2021-05-26 10:55:19 | <tdammers> | "can I write that function, and if so, how" is a question that's secondary to the thought process, really |
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| 2021-05-26 10:57:32 | <boxscape> | still trying to figure out how to unsafeCoerce getLine without getting a segfault |
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| 2021-05-26 11:01:59 | <boxscape> | % let fakeGetLine = pure @IO "input" in case Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce fakeGetLine GHC.Exts.void# of (# _ :: GHC.Exts.Void#, str :: String #) -> str |
| 2021-05-26 11:02:00 | <yahb> | boxscape: "input" |
| 2021-05-26 11:02:01 | <boxscape> | alright |
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| 2021-05-26 11:02:10 | <Guest53e> | ty all for the convo |
| 2021-05-26 11:02:20 | <boxscape> | I'm actually surprised that String is different from (# Void#, String #) in terms of runtime rep |
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| 2021-05-26 11:02:45 | <maerwald> | tdammers: I find it fascinating how different approaches can be in programming and, sadly, very little literature and research about it. |
| 2021-05-26 11:03:03 | <maerwald> | As in: philosophy and psychology of programming is an understudied field |
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| 2021-05-26 11:03:56 | <maerwald> | the concept of "complexity" alone (in non-technical terms even) is a controversial one |
| 2021-05-26 11:04:12 | <maerwald> | people experience complexity different |
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| 2021-05-26 11:08:19 | <maerwald> | I experience anxiety if I can't follow program control flow anymore, so OOP naturally feels "complex" to me. But I know others that don't need the concept of control flow |
| 2021-05-26 11:08:28 | <agumonke`> | do you think that good code is always a projection of a good structure / mental map of the problem and thus "clean" |
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| 2021-05-26 11:09:18 | <agumonke`> | maerwald: smalltalk oop is a tad less imperative/stateful and felt easier, but java oop is a drag to me.. potential statefulness breaks my neurons very rapidly |
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| 2021-05-26 11:11:44 | <maerwald> | even "message passing", which some consider good OOP is too much for me |
| 2021-05-26 11:11:56 | <maerwald> | that's also why I stay away from network programming |
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| 2021-05-26 11:13:35 | <maerwald> | being exhaustive about potential problems in a network setting isn't particularly easy |
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| 2021-05-26 11:16:09 | <maerwald> | so maybe there's an emotional component about how you perceive technical complexity |
| 2021-05-26 11:16:22 | <maerwald> | fear of disconnection? ;) |
| 2021-05-26 11:17:34 | <xprlgjf> | ksqsf: http://haskellembedded.github.io/ discusses tools such as Ivory for generating C code from haskell. |
| 2021-05-26 11:17:52 | <xprlgjf> | sometimes discussed on #haskell-embedded |
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