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2026-03-22 21:49:38 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2026-03-22 21:54:03 <mesaoptimizer> jreicher: I imagine it is like Lisp. The more expressivity you have, the easier it is for people to shoot themselves in the foot. I personally haven't encountered that issue, mainly because I care a lot about reasoning about code, but I imagine other people may be excited about the 'power' of Lisp macros or advanced typeclasses / type system features and try to use them in prod
2026-03-22 21:54:38 <mesaoptimizer> also maybe relevant: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/hasura-migrating-to-rust/6620/47
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2026-03-22 22:11:53 <probie> I don't think lisp macros are a foot cannon. Things don't go wildly wrong when you use them; it's just that any project that makes extensive use of them is effectively written in its own bespoke programming language
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2026-03-22 22:30:49 <jreicher> probie: I absolutely think Lisp macros are a footgun, but not at all because they are an abstraction; it's because they generate new code at runtime. It's not quite the same as self-modifying code, but it's close enough.
2026-03-22 22:31:21 <jreicher> You quite literally lose static analysis capability. Even for a human.
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2026-03-22 22:55:36 <dpk> jreicher: they generate new code at compile time, not at run time
2026-03-22 22:56:24 <dpk> does anyone know if there’s a good reason why Happstack’s ServerPartT does not derive MonadMask, and if not (or if so and i promise to be very careful) what an orphan instance for it might look like?
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2026-03-22 23:04:05 <monochrom> foot water pistol >:)
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2026-03-22 23:15:34 <davean> dpk: I haven't looked but masking is dangerous in servers
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2026-03-22 23:29:25 <probie> jreicher: I can't speak to other lisp implementations, but if you're using SBCL, just call MACROEXPAND-ALL over your file and then run static analysis over that
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2026-03-23 00:31:50 <probie> fundamentally, lisp macros are not really much different than template haskell; they're just a bit less obvious because nothing visually distinguishes them from functions
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2026-03-23 00:32:29 <humasect> well..
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2026-03-23 01:50:00 <jreicher> dpk: sorry? Why do you think they don't expand at runtime?
2026-03-23 01:51:13 <td123> hey all, I'm scratching my head on this for a while so going to ask here for some clues, I have a stack.yaml with `- retroclash-lib-0.1.2.3` under the extra-deps. I'm running `stack build --allow-newer` and it's not building the `retroclash-lib` package and I can't import in ghci, but there are no errors in `stack build --allow-newer`. Any ideas how this is possible?
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2026-03-23 02:12:27 <haskellbridge> <alexfmpe> Not a stack user but isn't that just an override to LTS? You need to add it as a dep to package.yaml or so?
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2026-03-23 02:19:37 <td123> I'm not using a package.yaml file, I'm using a project.cabal file, and it's in the build-depends: also
2026-03-23 02:20:41 <haskellbridge> <sm> project.cabal doesn't affect stack builds, it's a cabal-install thing
2026-03-23 02:21:05 <haskellbridge> <sm> alexfmpe 's answer is right
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2026-03-23 02:26:43 <td123> ah so I need a package.yaml then, I didn't realize that was a thing, thanks all, I'll read up on that more
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2026-03-23 02:30:00 <geekosaur> are you confusing project.cabal with cabal.project?
2026-03-23 02:30:38 <geekosaur> package.yaml just writes a foo.cabal for whatever "foo" is from the package name
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2026-03-23 02:39:16 <td123> geekosaur: hmm I see. I think I need to learn stack a little bit more then so that I can use it properly. I thought all you had to do was add it to the stack.yaml and .cabal files to make it work. Google's ai summary of google results led me astray then

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