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2026-03-26 14:53:38 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2026-03-26 15:02:30 <Athas> int-e: yeah, I had some code that changed behaviour between (I assume) random versions, even through they used the same seed, so it is probably that.
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2026-03-26 15:06:33 <int-e> Athas: I haven't checked, but potentially there could be a difference between 32 bit and 64 bit platforms too.
2026-03-26 15:08:49 <Athas> That is not the reason here.
2026-03-26 15:10:20 Freakie joins (~Freakie@185.45.22.133)
2026-03-26 15:13:04 <mesaoptimizer> https://davidchristiansen.dk/pubs/dependent-haskell-experience-report.pdf interesting
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2026-03-26 15:23:49 <tomsmeding> mesaoptimizer: I was surprised reading that "most Haskell environments provide no mechanism for looking up the documentation for a name in its scope", but that was explained by them subsequently talking about GHC 8.0-8.6
2026-03-26 15:23:51 koala_man joins (~vidar@157.146.251.23.bc.googleusercontent.com)
2026-03-26 15:24:17 <tomsmeding> the year (2019) is relevant context here
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2026-03-26 15:25:40 <mesaoptimizer> I see
2026-03-26 15:25:59 <mesaoptimizer> that reminds me, HLS still doesn't allow arbitrary goto-definition.
2026-03-26 15:26:28 <tomsmeding> not into dependencies, no
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2026-03-26 15:30:55 <mesaoptimizer> For context, rust-analyzer can, and common-lisp (SLIME in Emacs)0000 can. (common-lisp has amazing tooling.)
2026-03-26 15:31:34 <mesaoptimizer> on that note, I have yet to try https://well-typed.github.io/haskell-debugger/
2026-03-26 15:31:37 <mesaoptimizer> let's see
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2026-03-26 17:11:15 <monochrom> IMO goto-definition for third-party libraries you happen to use as a blackbox is overrated. Then again IMO those libraries should have been properly documented so that you should never have to worry about their internal messy code.
2026-03-26 17:14:38 <monochrom> Athas: Starting with 1.2 random started using splitmix for generator, so yeah the generator changed.
2026-03-26 17:22:32 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2026-03-26 17:25:41 <mesaoptimizer> monochrom: feels like Stockholm syndrome. Agda allows you to do goto-definition for arbitrary `agda-stdlib` functions and types, and it is an absolute delight and pleasure. (I guess one exception is mixfix operators)
2026-03-26 17:27:01 <monochrom> Well then consider "use the source Luke" the other Stockholm syndrome plus gatekeeping as a bonus.
2026-03-26 17:27:22 <mesaoptimizer> that's actually fair
2026-03-26 17:27:30 <monochrom> Like, why should I ever need goto-defintion for Data.List.sort for example?
2026-03-26 17:27:38 <mesaoptimizer> hmm
2026-03-26 17:27:47 <monochrom> For Prelude.id, sure, it's trivial enough.
2026-03-26 17:28:13 <mesaoptimizer> how do you look at the docs for, say, Data.List.sort if you find you've used `sort` somewhere in your code?
2026-03-26 17:28:41 <monochrom> Currently I load up docs in my web browser.
2026-03-26 17:28:59 <int-e> monochrom: maybe you like finding out that it's 82 lines of code :)
2026-03-26 17:29:06 <mesaoptimizer> monochrom: I wouldn't consider it gatekeeping btw, I think a part of it is that `agda-stdlib` is quite easy to read. I barely know agda, and can't stand the prose in PLFA.
2026-03-26 17:29:42 <tomsmeding> mesaoptimizer: I suspect that you need the source much more often if you are doing proving in agda :p
2026-03-26 17:29:42 <int-e> (including empty lines and the sparse comments)
2026-03-26 17:29:45 <monochrom> goto-doc would be great, but it's only me, as you can see.
2026-03-26 17:29:51 × kuribas quits (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2026-03-26 17:30:03 <tomsmeding> monochrom: HLS can show you the haddocks in-editor, at least
2026-03-26 17:30:06 <monochrom> (the community decided that they have neither supply nor demand)
2026-03-26 17:30:32 <int-e> `sort` isn't a great example... you probably know how to use list. looking at some auxiliary parser from Parsec may teach you more about how to assemble parser combinators
2026-03-26 17:31:15 <dminuoso> 17:11:15 monochrom │ IMO goto-definition for third-party libraries you happen to use as a blackbox is overrated.
2026-03-26 17:31:26 <dminuoso> Bold thing to say in #haskell
2026-03-26 17:31:32 <monochrom> The doc can be a copy of the 1-line code, when the best explanation is that 1-line code.
2026-03-26 17:31:39 <tomsmeding> also, what about the third-party libraries I don't use as a black-box
2026-03-26 17:31:42 <int-e> tbf it was labelled as an opinion
2026-03-26 17:32:00 <tomsmeding> (how do you even decide whether you're using a library as a black box)
2026-03-26 17:32:01 Googulator78 is now known as Googulator
2026-03-26 17:32:18 <monochrom> Answer: Always true. :)
2026-03-26 17:32:20 <dminuoso> In my experience, hoogle+haddock+view source is the only way you can sensibly develop Haskell code.
2026-03-26 17:32:27 <dminuoso> Or some builtin goto-definition
2026-03-26 17:32:28 <tomsmeding> monochrom: not if the library is imperfectly documented :p
2026-03-26 17:32:34 <monochrom> Or rather, I already said "third-party" so it's a blackbox.
2026-03-26 17:32:36 <tomsmeding> which is most of them
2026-03-26 17:32:45 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: You mean like 95% of hackage?
2026-03-26 17:32:48 <tomsmeding> yes
2026-03-26 17:32:52 <tomsmeding> if not more
2026-03-26 17:32:58 <dminuoso> The rest 5% just doesn't build.
2026-03-26 17:33:01 <tomsmeding> lol
2026-03-26 17:33:05 <tomsmeding> very good point
2026-03-26 17:33:39 <mauke> what if the documentation is an unhinged rant that just stops halfway through the module?
2026-03-26 17:33:40 <dminuoso> goto-definition in the haskell world is really annoying to get right for so many reasons. :(
2026-03-26 17:33:59 <tomsmeding> HLS manages just fine in-project

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