Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2026-03-26 15:02:30 | <Athas> | int-e: yeah, I had some code that changed behaviour between (I assume) random versions, even through they used the same seed, so it is probably that. |
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| 2026-03-26 15:06:33 | <int-e> | Athas: I haven't checked, but potentially there could be a difference between 32 bit and 64 bit platforms too. |
| 2026-03-26 15:08:49 | <Athas> | That is not the reason here. |
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| 2026-03-26 15:13:04 | <mesaoptimizer> | https://davidchristiansen.dk/pubs/dependent-haskell-experience-report.pdf interesting |
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| 2026-03-26 15:23:49 | <tomsmeding> | mesaoptimizer: I was surprised reading that "most Haskell environments provide no mechanism for looking up the documentation for a name in its scope", but that was explained by them subsequently talking about GHC 8.0-8.6 |
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| 2026-03-26 15:24:17 | <tomsmeding> | the year (2019) is relevant context here |
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| 2026-03-26 15:25:40 | <mesaoptimizer> | I see |
| 2026-03-26 15:25:59 | <mesaoptimizer> | that reminds me, HLS still doesn't allow arbitrary goto-definition. |
| 2026-03-26 15:26:28 | <tomsmeding> | not into dependencies, no |
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| 2026-03-26 15:30:55 | <mesaoptimizer> | For context, rust-analyzer can, and common-lisp (SLIME in Emacs)0000 can. (common-lisp has amazing tooling.) |
| 2026-03-26 15:31:34 | <mesaoptimizer> | on that note, I have yet to try https://well-typed.github.io/haskell-debugger/ |
| 2026-03-26 15:31:37 | <mesaoptimizer> | let's see |
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| 2026-03-26 17:11:15 | <monochrom> | IMO goto-definition for third-party libraries you happen to use as a blackbox is overrated. Then again IMO those libraries should have been properly documented so that you should never have to worry about their internal messy code. |
| 2026-03-26 17:14:38 | <monochrom> | Athas: Starting with 1.2 random started using splitmix for generator, so yeah the generator changed. |
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| 2026-03-26 17:25:41 | <mesaoptimizer> | monochrom: feels like Stockholm syndrome. Agda allows you to do goto-definition for arbitrary `agda-stdlib` functions and types, and it is an absolute delight and pleasure. (I guess one exception is mixfix operators) |
| 2026-03-26 17:27:01 | <monochrom> | Well then consider "use the source Luke" the other Stockholm syndrome plus gatekeeping as a bonus. |
| 2026-03-26 17:27:22 | <mesaoptimizer> | that's actually fair |
| 2026-03-26 17:27:30 | <monochrom> | Like, why should I ever need goto-defintion for Data.List.sort for example? |
| 2026-03-26 17:27:38 | <mesaoptimizer> | hmm |
| 2026-03-26 17:27:47 | <monochrom> | For Prelude.id, sure, it's trivial enough. |
| 2026-03-26 17:28:13 | <mesaoptimizer> | how do you look at the docs for, say, Data.List.sort if you find you've used `sort` somewhere in your code? |
| 2026-03-26 17:28:41 | <monochrom> | Currently I load up docs in my web browser. |
| 2026-03-26 17:28:59 | <int-e> | monochrom: maybe you like finding out that it's 82 lines of code :) |
| 2026-03-26 17:29:06 | <mesaoptimizer> | monochrom: I wouldn't consider it gatekeeping btw, I think a part of it is that `agda-stdlib` is quite easy to read. I barely know agda, and can't stand the prose in PLFA. |
| 2026-03-26 17:29:42 | <tomsmeding> | mesaoptimizer: I suspect that you need the source much more often if you are doing proving in agda :p |
| 2026-03-26 17:29:42 | <int-e> | (including empty lines and the sparse comments) |
| 2026-03-26 17:29:45 | <monochrom> | goto-doc would be great, but it's only me, as you can see. |
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| 2026-03-26 17:30:03 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: HLS can show you the haddocks in-editor, at least |
| 2026-03-26 17:30:06 | <monochrom> | (the community decided that they have neither supply nor demand) |
| 2026-03-26 17:30:32 | <int-e> | `sort` isn't a great example... you probably know how to use list. looking at some auxiliary parser from Parsec may teach you more about how to assemble parser combinators |
| 2026-03-26 17:31:15 | <dminuoso> | 17:11:15 monochrom │ IMO goto-definition for third-party libraries you happen to use as a blackbox is overrated. |
| 2026-03-26 17:31:26 | <dminuoso> | Bold thing to say in #haskell |
| 2026-03-26 17:31:32 | <monochrom> | The doc can be a copy of the 1-line code, when the best explanation is that 1-line code. |
| 2026-03-26 17:31:39 | <tomsmeding> | also, what about the third-party libraries I don't use as a black-box |
| 2026-03-26 17:31:42 | <int-e> | tbf it was labelled as an opinion |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:00 | <tomsmeding> | (how do you even decide whether you're using a library as a black box) |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:01 | Googulator78 | is now known as Googulator |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:18 | <monochrom> | Answer: Always true. :) |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:20 | <dminuoso> | In my experience, hoogle+haddock+view source is the only way you can sensibly develop Haskell code. |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:27 | <dminuoso> | Or some builtin goto-definition |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:28 | <tomsmeding> | monochrom: not if the library is imperfectly documented :p |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:34 | <monochrom> | Or rather, I already said "third-party" so it's a blackbox. |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:36 | <tomsmeding> | which is most of them |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:45 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: You mean like 95% of hackage? |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:48 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:52 | <tomsmeding> | if not more |
| 2026-03-26 17:32:58 | <dminuoso> | The rest 5% just doesn't build. |
| 2026-03-26 17:33:01 | <tomsmeding> | lol |
| 2026-03-26 17:33:05 | <tomsmeding> | very good point |
| 2026-03-26 17:33:39 | <mauke> | what if the documentation is an unhinged rant that just stops halfway through the module? |
| 2026-03-26 17:33:40 | <dminuoso> | goto-definition in the haskell world is really annoying to get right for so many reasons. :( |
| 2026-03-26 17:33:59 | <tomsmeding> | HLS manages just fine in-project |
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